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Dagger or Arrow

Discussion in 'Halberd' started by Estrath, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Estrath

    Estrath Member

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    Hello, I'm a halberd enthusiast and I've been thinking on what advantages do you gain for choosing dagger or arrow as a sub weapon.
    I would like to know what the pros and cons are for a dagger (p.ray vs no p. Ray build) vs an arrow build.
    Also let consider all the builds have the provided gear to support it.

    Discuss
    Also which dagger skills are worth maxing or getting.
     
  2. Archie or Ara

    Archie or Ara Well-Known Member

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    Arrow so u can get both snipe n Sstab instant opness.
    More stability too.
    Said me, a halberd dagger user.
    OK joking aside.
    Dagger more atk low stability
    Arrow normal atk high stability
     
  3. Komibii

    Komibii [TITLE] Elite Member

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    Arrow: you can use snipe
    Dagger: Reliable ailment rate
    Stability from arrows only affects bows and bowguns, which is pretty sad considering that they could be used to easily make high-stability builds.
     
  4. Archie or Ara

    Archie or Ara Well-Known Member

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    Ah... Sad then
     
  5. Estrath

    Estrath Member

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    Still have para shot in the arrow kit though which helps a lot.
     
  6. Genosis

    Genosis Active Member

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    Basically yeah, IMO if you're using arrow para should always be lv 10. It's so good.

    I switched from Arrow to Dag and I miss the sporadic bursts and stability from paralyzing. The combo was more fun as well, but seriously not recommended during boss fights.
     
  7. Archie or Ara

    Archie or Ara Well-Known Member

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    Tell us more
     
  8. Estrath

    Estrath Member

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    I agree especially if you have snipe and SS in the combo you know you can do much if you're focused. Still you can always have another combo without snipe for faster damage. Still snipe has a long ramp up time on damage.
     
  9. mayam

    mayam Elite Member Elite Member Epic Member

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    Unfortunately because some idiot didnt know how to test some old posts of mine would say that para stab buff doesnt work for non bow bowgun. Sorry about that but actually it works for all classes and it gives same +10% stability for all weapons.
    Only benefit that other weapons dont get are the sub arrow wep atk, stability and element.
     
  10. Archie or Ara

    Archie or Ara Well-Known Member

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    My spear dagger is so unstable it's like when it's give good damage it's OK but when it's not its lots of whites is annoying
     
  11. Aomine2426

    Aomine2426 Member

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    Hb arrow tend to drew aggro alot..
    due to high mp skill in 1mp combo
    Both have pro n con
     
  12. Genosis

    Genosis Active Member

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    I'll tell you a secret.

    Dark Knight Amulet and Beast Collar.

    15% Max HP is basically nothing (100? 200?) because you get most of your HP from Iconos and HP Up and Vita Plus.

    Plus, DKA slotted is cheap AF and still gives 400 MP.

    Gothic Hat is dated as heck. Beast Collar is your new best friend.

    Also, proration is not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be.

    You only do about 3 extra hits per 1 mp combo (Para/Blind/Snipe). As long as you do not spam 1 mp from afar consistantly, you can prorate decently still. You just need to know wtf you are doing. The thing is you take so long to ramp up your combo, your teammate can easily make up for your proration during the charge time, especially if you have DW or Archers that knows how to prorate. In a way, you also use each of your MP so efficiently you rarely run low on MP.

    After switching to dagger I found out that my overall damage suffered a little but my life is so much easier because dag-halb is actually kind of brainless. You have tonnes of flexibility and mobility. Snipe Halb is just cool to play though. But the combo kills you. On something like Jeila, you need to basically pray she doesnt shave your entire HP off while you take 8 second to combo.

    I suggest Moeba > Paralyzing (Save) > Warcry(Consec) > SS (Smite) > FlashStab/HolyFist (Consec) as your combo 2 if you want to do snipe. Atleast you wont be risking your life every time you have to do combo damage :p

    (Changed Warcry/HolyFist because short combo with save is painful unless you account for damage debt. Opps)

    Edit: I have to note that this is just my personal experience because i have shit equip and cant burst. Logically if your burst is insane, dag halb shouldnt be doing less damage than arrow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  13. Aomine2426

    Aomine2426 Member

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  14. Genosis

    Genosis Active Member

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    Ye. Not only that you are much better off most of the time because of your short combo with high burst.

    *shrugs*

    I just dont have a 2s to put ifrid in. Which is why my burst suffers. Not to mention my shit halb.

    Mana is painfully important on dag halb.

    Its also much easier to be a dagger halb, and most of the time better.

    But still. I think arrow halb is the cooler playstyle. Not necessarily better.
     
  15. Arbitrary Constant

    Arbitrary Constant Active Member

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    A fellow arrow halb experience, tried dagger too!
    Dmg is pretty decent with my not-good equips! Can win atker sometime but since the combo long other alrdy kills the boss u might not get it. Proration (not an expert), but dmg depends on that. When i pt with spammer halb 2k on snipe is what i get. Its kinda hard to play. No kiddin u die if no vita n rev, like 100% u die. The agroo equals tank (think i exaggerated here :3) but yes most of the time u the tank and thats a problem cause u cant combo if u the tank! Fighting Bezix like these is hard as fk cause the knockbacks wont let u combo even once n u gonna get that agroo anyhow so thats that. Buuuuut theres a but n that is its freakin fun to play. When i tried halb dagger it was like hit n run. Short combos high survival rate and faster dmg rate but no fun.
    Also i tried using the pure sniper burst combo impact-snipe that works too with halb arrow. So if u got mana pool u can use that like other sniper n 1mp too.
    Still experimenting but since sneak atk got 4mp cost for non bow/bowgun u can try replacing smoke dust with sneak if u got like high crate, u can hide agroo (not fully tasted but tried n works kinda fine).
    Also I tried getting assault atk on the combo before strike stab to zap n hit but couldn't do it (hides my n00bass).
    Also i met few arrow halbs with pray and idk-skills who got better dmg then bow.
    Lastly, it just me and my findings. Can be wrong or i can just be a overenthusiastic noob.
    Ps: Arrow halb= avg dmg among bow/bowgun/2hs/daggerhalb. Survival rate is low. Harder to play. 2nd coolest dps(1hs is dw hands down).
     
  16. banyu kazuma

    banyu kazuma Active Member

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    May be he didn't talk about para stab, but stab % next to arrow atk number,,, may be,, may be..
     
  17. mayam

    mayam Elite Member Elite Member Epic Member

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    Nah it was about para shot. The arrow stability indeed doesnt work for non bow bowgun but para buff (10sec) as long as it is on you will gain the +10% buff regardless of your weapon.
    What he did was he tested with wall but wall duration is more than 10sec so after the 10sec para buff ended the wall lost the stability but he counted the last unstable ticks as well as the ticks during the first 10sec and thought that para buff didnt work for magic skills. This caused a lot of confusion untill months later my master saw theres no limit for para buff.
     
  18. Laxus~

    Laxus~ Well-Known Member

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    it doesn't matter how high dmg u do in one combo,main thing is that how much dmg u deal in a given time.
    snipe+SS in same combo sounds cool but it make ur combo long .most of time fighting boss it can break ur combo :mad:resulting in doing less dmg
    i heard that if u use snipe n SS in same combo dmg of SS reduce due to proration. i never tried arrow-helb with snipe but most of ppl said time taken in snipe+ss combo u can use 2-3 combo without snipe (short n fast combo)
     
  19. Genosis

    Genosis Active Member

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    Its not so simple.

    Proration reduction is not much compared to armor break+no damage reduction from save. You almost always get your damage worth out of the combo. The damage in one SS + Snipe combo is equivalent to something like 2 dagger halb combo damage. Plus in a long combo, your save damage penalty is reduced.

    3 times is an exaggeration on boss fights. 2 times is more likely, especially in a boss fight situation where you have to move around after your 1 mp dagger.

    You can spam nearly 3 times if all you do is spam the combo, however at that point you would've fucked with the proration of the boss more than a Snipe Combo (Unless you used impact and all 3 times it hit) and wasted 3 MP for it.

    The problem mostly lay in how long you stay stationary using a snipe combo. Its very impractical.

    And you are also relying on team to not mess up proration during the time you are messing up theirs. With how many spammers there are, it's hardly possible.

    Pros:
    -Rarely have mana issue. Damage: Mana is top tier.
    -Chimera Arrow
    -Combo is cool as heck.
    -Snipe
    -Paralyzing Shot
    -You CAN make short combo with Snipe Halb.
    Moeba > Warcry (Save) > Paralyzing(Consec) > SS (Smite) > HolyFist/Smite (Consec) (Used when you have more than 1 mage/dw)
    Moeba > Warcry (Save) > Impact(Swift) > SS (Smite) > Holy Fist (Consec) (Magic Proration > Physical)
    So in a way:
    -Flexible Combo and Options

    Cons:
    -Proration is really bad if all you do is mana spam. REALLY bad.
    -Using Snipe in any capacity during a boss fight like lv 150 Platinum Potum is just... no.
    -Combo Points requirements are steep
    -Skill Points investment is steep, which means you cant go for auxiliary trees like survival or armor easily
    -Knowing how combo works is a MUST.
    -No Poison Dagger
    -In fights where Snipe is not viable, your damage is crippled heavily.
    -Your Aggro is going to be REALLY fucking annoying for tanks, unless you invest in Sneak Attack(Save), but apparently there's delay in that. Beast Collar and Dark Knight Amulet is basically a must.
    -Only a single 1 mp skill option for combo starter from long range : Moeba Shot. This IMO is the biggest problem with Arrow Halb. If you have a second 1 mp instantaneous combo starter from range, Arrow Halb would become much more viable. Like, you can ACTUALLY use Snipe in Plat Potum without sacrificing your Moeba to activate SS.
    -Really high skill ceiling. It's not in a "Well I am KIRITO, so everything is DAIJOUBU" way. It's really fucking hard to play it properly. You have to adjust combos so often it's absolutely miserable. So often you have to take into account proration rates, skill composition, etc, it's crippling. Sure you can just use moeba shot combo for all bosses. But what's the fucking point of playing Arrow Halb then lol. Just dagger.

    In other words just dagger if you're a beginner. This is from pretty extensive testing on damage on both Dagger and Arrow, switching back and forth both tree.
     
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  20. Laxus~

    Laxus~ Well-Known Member

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    looks like u r fan of arrow helb:D,did u tested both build??? but there r more cons than pros .
    and in my post i wasn't saying arrow vs dagger i was saying about build with sniper n without sniper in same combo.
     

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