1. Welcome to the Toram Online Forums. Please make sure to read our rules and be friendly to all our members.
    Click here to read the rules before posting.
    Dismiss Notice

Unexpected drop on the item prices

Discussion in 'Toram Online Player Feedback / Review' started by TheSwordSlay, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    Maybe preventing players from inputing their own price and hiring GM with their job focusing on determining fix price on items could solve the problem?
     
  2. TheChosen

    TheChosen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    2
    IGN:
    Shmuel
    I think Toram just needs to IP ban people so the only way to cheat (mod, bot, rmt) will be to use a new device to do it. Toram's current ban's honestly do nothing to determined people.
     
  3. erirya

    erirya Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    260
    IGN:
    erirya
    No. This is fundamentally a terrible idea.

    1) no way a single person can understand all of the price interactions of every single item in the game of toram.
    2) no way aso is going to pay someone to do this.
    3) you remove free agency of a person to determine the value of 1) their work to obtain said item 2) the item itself.
    4) does not even solve the underlying issue of automated effort reduces the value of human effort. Actually this makes botting more profitable because no matter how many of said item is in the market it will always be sold at a certain price.
     
  4. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    262
    IGN:
    FamousToramPlayer
    Ok, here is a solution.

    Everyone gets one free trade a day, person to person. They can trade with someone once, and receive an item once. No spina trading. Spina is only obtainable through the consignment board, quests, rewards, events etc.

    All other trading else is done through the consignment board, which is specific to each town. And it is limited to a ticket system. Where you can list a single item in each category, and have 5 tickets to allow additional items in any category each day. Tickets cannot be traded, and are only obtainable from NPC quests, with random requirements each day.


    If we create enough bottle necks, then the easiest solution it to participate in the economy. Botting will just be bottlenecked, as even if you farmed with 100 bots, and wanted to RMT. You couldn't. like...there is no physical way to give someone currency without buying an items on the free market. And that has risk.

    And, to top it off. When you list an item, it appears in a queue, so there is a delay before it is listed. Meaning, you can't attempt a quick CB trade, and hope you can slip a RMT though.

    And let's assume, a RMTer. Is going to do 100+ individual trades to a single person. Nope, the individual can only accept a single trade a day, and it's only materials. Something they could have gathered themselves.

    What about a rare xtal or equipment? Again, only one per-day. Plus the RMT is competing with the free market. If the RMTer over supply the rares, the original RMTbuyers would list the item to sell, and potentially undercut the profits of the actual RMT.


    The player can still farm, and make spina by selling materials to NPC, completing quests and participating in the economy via the CB.

    Huge bot farms wouldn't be able to do anything other than devalue the price of items on the CB by over supply. But with the Spina they generated, it would be limited to the ticket system. So players that thought they could get ahead through automation... would find it would have been more worth while just playing the game normally.

    If we wanted to limit progress on leveling characters proficiency, to keep the equipment market stable. Then we can just have a stamina system, where you can only craft so many items to a certain rarity/level.

    But, what do we do for personal inflation and hoarding items. Nothing. If someone wants to max their spina, by automatically farming and selling materials to a vendor. Then it is purely for personal reasons, that don't undermine the market.

    We can have functions in the game, similar to synthesising that require spina. Such as dyes, appearances, mini-games (achievements), NPC vendors (+$), secret vendors (+++$).




    So what would people do, to short cut the game. Just accept that progress is slow and difficult, which becomes the normative in the game.

    There is no real advantage of having such a free market in Toram, it just places a self imposed time burden on the player. That is often unhealthy, as you shouldn't be playing it 8+ hours straight. Like 7 hours is a pretty good effort, but 12 hours. Dude, it's time to walk around, exercise, get some fresh covid-19 air, and overthrow the CCP.
     
  5. erirya

    erirya Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    260
    IGN:
    erirya
    These ideas of restricting trade per account or economy literally makes botting and alt accounts more valuable while punishing real players. By restricting trade, you have made this resource more valuable. So having more accounts to use this resource, trade, becomes even more profitable. So what if an RMTer is restricted to 1 trade per account, just have 100 accounts todo 100 trades. The counter argument to this would be, would registering and creating 100 accounts be to much of an overhead that RMTers would not do this? My answer is, this overhead is not high enough. RMTers will just script account creation, actually this may even startup a new market of a "trading service".

    Do not lose sight of the real problem of Botting/automation in game reduces the value of human effort in game. We live in the age of machine learning, using algorithms to detect bot behavior should be real easy. Hell, you do not even need AI algorithms, just a basic threshold. For example a 6 second Volg run is impossible, which should result in a ban. 1 second finale cast, should result in a ban. 24+ hours of continuous farming should alert a gm.

    I am glad that the toram devs do not pay attention to the forums and we are just yelling into the wind or toram will be far worst than it is right now.
     
  6. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    If algorithm can solve the bot problem, why does bot still exist then? :D
     
  7. erirya

    erirya Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    260
    IGN:
    erirya
    they haven't implemented an algorithm :) which is apparent with all of the bots. Your jab answered your own question.
     
  8. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    If there is no solution then let the price keep going down bcs of bot? If they really can implement the algorithm, they will do it a long time ago alrdy. They cant even implement basic threshold algorithm that u mentioned

    Actually when I mean fixing the item price, the price should be community determined to prevent someone from underprice items. Actually I know aso wont hire someone to do this, but well, when I said the solution, I kinda suggest that whatever solution we propose, nothing will change in this game since it is on the developer side. It is only them who can make the game better. I dont really care if the bot can get much more money since price cannot get down, but if players must suffer also bcs of price drop, it seems it is much better just to fix the price or maybe lowest and highest possible price. This is just my opinion
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2020
  9. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    IGN:
    AZlN
    Well in that case id spina isnt viable option for tradin RMTER can use xtal value instead like what happened in iruna. They used Sauro2 as a currency since they hit the spina cap.
    Same thing will happen here. If we cant trade xtal u could just simply send it via gift. It will be all worthless effort to implement this.

    Also restricting all players to use cb is kinda shitty approach tbh. Other newbies use cb to earn spina quick way so they could get better equip real quick.

    Fixing bot/mod problems are more than enough to equalise the market once again.

    Or simply asked for another rollback before the botpocalypse happend
     
  10. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    IGN:
    Red_Fox
    no. this will only upset all the players. bots will simply come back, they progress much faster than players.
    and there are people who buy from bots and RMTrs. losing all items/spinas will just encourage more buyers. maybe not for RMT since it's real money, but bot farmers will be in high demand.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    IGN:
    AZlN
    Ofcourse once they fixed the bot problem if they really wanna fix the prices a roll back is a must tbh.

    Ita not just do a roll back while bot is in the game roll back once they perfectly kick.them out.

    Ip banning botters/modder will be the best way to do it since most botter are rmt player its like 2birds in one stone lol
     
  12. The Lost One

    The Lost One THOT BEGONE AGENT Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    607
    IGN:
    <-Kenji-
    Imo or just a nonsense hypothesis which I came up after reading all these comments, there are two things or reasons why this deflation is getting worse everyday:

    1.) Bots, spina guides, over farmed/hoarded mats and items. Well it is self explanatory as to how these stuff I mentioned ruined the economy. And lastly,

    2.) Lack of spina circulation in the market, considering they already announce this bot counter measures and made a move on it will results to lack of spina circulation. Why? considering half of the bots are not just for farming mats and items but for selling those drops to stores into spina, spina sellers will be extinct pretty soon so the sources of these spina in the market also decrease.

    Most veterans and probably a few number of those veterans are spina buyers which might be in haitus or quitting the game, will make the spina stagnant. Spina sellers also report each other to remove competition which will result to lack of spina generated in the market. Spina sellers can't meet the demand thus lack of spina will also result to lower prices in the long run. I believe people are farming once again like bots to sell those drops to stores for spina nowadays since farming mats and hoarding is not that much profitable atm.

    This deflation has pros and cons but as someone who hoard stuff and farm like crazy which I hardly do now, the toram market is a mess and makes me want to get a life considering how much time I spent farming those mats but ended up earning not that much.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  13. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    209
    IGN:
    Brahmnic
    There is another solution:
    • When was the last time we did supplied something to the general stores? I think only in first quest. But where does Sololo get his/her stock from? It has to be colectors/adventureres like us, right?
    • So, there should be an implementation of a 'stock' system with fixed prices.
    • Remove the Consignment board's ability to sell materials.
    • Say Sololo sells Minotaur skins. There will be a hidden variable on the developer side, like MINO SKIN STOCK = some number. This value cannot go over a certain value, say 10000? stacks.
    • Let Percentage of Warehouse full ={1 - [(MINO SKIN MAX - MINO SKIN STOCK)/MINO SKIN MAX]} * 100
    • You can sell Mino skins to Sololo for a COST_PRICE = 150,000 - 1500*(percentage of warehouse full)
    • If you sell to Sololo in bulk then he/she will want a discount as BULK_COST_PRICE = COST PRICE * ((stack - 0.1stack)/stack)
    • All stacks sold on a single day will count towards the BULK. The Bulk, if sold at once, will recalculate price every 10 stacks.
    • Sololo is a businessman/woman. He/She does not trust new faces. You need to have a character for more than 'x' in-game hours before anyone can sell to Sololo. This limit increases for other NPC stores, who stock items closer to their map.
    • Also, you can't sell 3000 stacks all at once after this time limit. There is a cap on how many stacks you can sell in one day, starting from 1 and increasing in a 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 sequence, every x days. Because Sololo doesn't take large orders from new faces.
    • Players can Buy from Sololo at SELLING_PRICE = 200,000 - 1500*(percentage of warehouse full), because sololo can't sell at dangerously low prices.
    • Since the lowest selling price will be always 50,000; botters will have to resort to trading, because filling up the Stock is useless, they get less and less spina. If they are desperate, they can sell it all to Sololo for very low prices. But if they can't, they will have to sell Mino skins in trading, and it's easier to detect who is botting because they'll shout something ridiculous like "S> Mino skin 50k/stk".
    • Note, selling price will be 50 k only when CP = 0, So Mino skin will be generally costlier.
    • Similarly, repeat for all materials, with different Starting CP and SP.
    • This uses a lot of the Material database, and people can farm any item, because it can be sold for some value at a general store.
     
    • Creative Creative x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Eloneys

    Eloneys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    116
    IGN:
    Eloneys
    The second one is not an issue, aso can easily inject a new spina by buying random expensive stuff on CB. In fact, they did it for few weeks after rollback. Example, someone keep buying my ns talisman for 500k on CB after rollback.
     
  15. TheChosen

    TheChosen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    2
    IGN:
    Shmuel
    I'm wondering why Toram doesn't IP ban. Someone pls explain.
     
  16. LapizLazuli07

    LapizLazuli07 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    85
    IGN:
    brOHwh
    Selling mob drops to genstore is increasingly gaining popularity. If Aso increase profit from mob drops(or some other way cuz bots benefit most from this), you can promote players to do this. This is a money faucet in the game where fresh spina is added into the economy. (Just sharing, CB is a price sink. The tax is a way of removing spina from circulation to prevent inflation.)

    if the spina circulation is the issue, then this is a good solution
     
  17. Rizer phoenix

    Rizer phoenix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    125
    Quite nice actually,
    Except,
    If Aso actually had made NPC so much better, they wouldve improved the overall game,
    Thats some advanced npc thinking if l do say so,
    As l have yet to encounter such outside of somes games and even those werent MMORPG .
    Its been near 5 years since toram released,
    How much more clues do we need that they dont really care bout the player base and only about their profits, as far as it seems.

    Whenever it seems the player base is past their limits of patience?
    They either give free orbs/tickets/shards, release a new skill, or class all together, yet wont work to fix what is original the problem; satisfying the players for time being.
    If anything, things seems to be going downhill now ._.) Bugs, repeated events and what not.
    Its better if players dont attach themselves to this game (emotionally) anymore, many have tried, hardly gave any result, just come, play and forget
    '-')
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  18. Fornjotr

    Fornjotr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    84
    IGN:
    Fornjotr
    Good in theory, disappointing in practice.

    Take Runescape. They have once implemented an idea similar to yours, however trading was outright removed from the game. While it did the job (at least for the unsophisticated botters), the non-botting player base plummeted. Of course, this didn’t eradicate botting altogether. Regardless of the strategy the developers’ apply, it’s not as though botting doesn’t develop over time. It’s a battle of wits.

    Unfortunately, botting will forever be an issue. Botters won’t simply accept defeat; you’re deluding yourself.
    It depends on one’s ISP. It’s easy to change IP addresses (rebooting usually does the job), unless one has been provided a static IP address--which is rare. Furthermore, it’s difficult to differentiate IP addresses, therefore you run the risk of banning an innocent player.
     
  19. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    262
    IGN:
    FamousToramPlayer
    Ahh, I think you didn't read the post.

    They can only do a single trade a day. And it isn't for currency. The botting would be isolated, and market penetration severely limited.

    It isn't a punishment to the player, if it's on everyone. It's just part of the game, no different to drop rates and exp.

    You want to normalize the economy, and restricting trade means you can't physically sell items in game, without huge trade offs.

    If they have to manage 100+ bots to do 100+ individual trades, sorry to say this. But it would be so much easier to manage from a data side to control. And in terms of botting, it would be to sophisticated to manage.
     
  20. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    IGN:
    AZlN
    How about the device mac address? They could see if someone is votting if theres multiple acc with the same mac address(1 pc ton of emulator)?
     

Share This Page