An idea for an entire magic rework

why did it turn weird lol

 

Imo, mage is bad in current meta, and the reason is: dekoi.

-mage: long cast time Finale+mp charge need more than 10s to cast, high aggro need sneak, can't move while casting, can be interupted (magic flinch)
-phy class: put dekoi, spam impact-dps

Phy class can spamming short combo 2-3 smite dps while mage only 1cast of finale/mp chrge in same amount of time. Also finale/chrge root you in one place waiting for boss aoe to come.

Tl:dr they need to nerf dekoi ampr.

 

Mage is feel is a bit stiff because their skills take too long to execute to synchronize together. Cspd is not very helpful because the problem with spells is not just cast speed, but the animation cast time and end animation length as well. They take much a lot more time than 70%+ reduction in spell casting. It's not just finale; it's just the most noticable.

So I'd like to.see some change in motion speed for spells such as Staff/MD affects Atkspd equally as Capd. Or, have each individual skills animation tweked a bit to match synchronicity with each other. Magic Javlin's begining animation in particular I'd like to see sped up to near instant (for flinch). I think mages need one more low cost, moderate-damage direct damage skill as well as one more utility CC.

Keep in mind my opinion is based on Magic Tree only. I don't have much experience with Magic Blade Warrior to factor them alongside.

 

I always thought that the best route was to just flip the way finale and Burst worked.

Since Finale is the big skill, kinda like Garyou. Have it need set up of magic skills for more damage/lowered cast time.

Just make burst quicker to use and not require build up. Could've kept the same damage formulas, but since finale need build up, people would prioritize getting burst spams going then dropping a finale

 

Dt can be used at a faster rate then finale and always does the same damage due to 100% pierce unless the boss has physical res or proration is off and proration can be fixed with a good tank/pt, the same thing goes for proto clarity and also garyou has 100% pierce and all you need to do is spam tenryu before it

 

i like the concept but... its aoe, most physical meta skills aren't, but if they do its only cf the notable one.

I can totally agree that finale seems lacking but, its reliability with weak gear is beyond stupid. Also ranged. Stationary? a weakness can be patched. Defensive gear and stats.

How about fractionals? melee dies more often than stationary finales unless they didnt put some defenses for the greed of dmg.

Also magic can MK quite easily and is loved by tanks cuz of it, not like katana became a part of mk lynx pts.

 

U dont say like i dont know about what other weapons can do i thought this thread was about magic rework ideas not comparing weapons

 

This thread is to show how lackluster magic in general is when compared to EVERYTHING else. Even if you are a mage with 4.6k magic attack, if you can make a character like that then you can make a physical char that can do almost everything in half the time. The problem being mages dont have a skill like physical dps that grows nicely with your gear/stats, at least from my perspective. ( not to mention the plethora of other problems) from a poorly done magic crit system to the weakness debuff, everything is just poorly done for mages.

 

There will be a rework soon dont worry other weapons have more problems than mages.
I bought my t.grievance philospher ring and im7% arm in december 2017. U can guess from this how many problems i have.

 

And they supposedly nerfed tenryu as well as hasso, but all we can do is wait for now I guess.

 

I am gonna compare magic tree with katana tree as I believe in my opinion katana is the most balanced skill tree when it comes to skill utility.
Every single skill except maybe issen got a specific use or a niche for a certain boss or a certain situation which makes the class really fun to use.
--For offensive skills they got the very fast and mp efficient skill in tenryu and the more balanced version of the spammable dragon tooth in garyou for high def bosses.
--For defensive skills they got the extremely useful magadachi and of course zantei which even helps preserve buffs like gsw that get removed by hits. These skills even get boosted by tenryu to give invinc and deal great damage with the perfect aim as well.
--Triple thrust might not be as commonly used because of its mp cost compared to other dodging skills like backstep however it still got its uses as well for letting you avoid linear aoes as shown by pro katana players like hivan, its constant bonus buff has certain niche uses as well.
--Pulse blade and pommel strike are excellent filler skills to use for garyou counters, pommel especially because of its really fast animation. They got their individual uses as well --> Pulse being an excellent 1mp long range combo opener, being a true multi hit it can even deal good damage on bosses with damage limit like empress hell or p.ava with proper set up. Pommel inflicts paralysis which can be used if bosses are weak to it like maton.
--Finally they even got an incredible AOE skill in hasso which is fast, has perfect aim and proper range. Some people above saying mages are better at mass killing with their aoes, I can easily prove them wrong with katana users that still have lvl10 hasso.

Magic tree on the other hand has more than half the tree almost always unused as most of the skills only do damage or inflict ailments, because of this only the ones that are really good at doing damage are used namely just finale in most of the cases. Heck most magic builds only require 4 skills to do most of everything what other mages do these 4 skills are impact, finale, mp charge and maximizer.
Only on certain bosses like empress hell with damage limit did I see skills like arrows, lance and storm being much better than finale.
--Now I am not saying magic tree needs defensive invinc skills like maga or zantei coz that will beat the whole point of them being vulnerable during casting. What I want to see are more unique and interesting skills that are used for anything other then ailments or damage. How about skills that actually give buffs that help mages like MATK buffs. How many buff skills give MATK again? Compared to the number of skills that give ATK and other phys oriented buffs. Maybe give this to lance or burst. An actually useful version of either barrier would be good too which prevents flinch/tumble/stun/knockback at the cost of taking higher damage from the hits or increasing the mp cost of skills.
--How about changing power wave into a magical version of rampage that turns the auto attacks of staff and md into magic ones with magic traits and damage dealt based on MATK (No I am not talking something like that stupid hunter skill, I want a proper magic auto attack skill with autos that are magic based instead of phys based with MATK).
--As for burst how about giving it pierce so that it actually has some use on high def bosses, instead now it gets completely ditched in favour of finale for such bosses coz of its humongous constant, either that or make it do higher damage based on counters too not just have a stupid cast time reduction.
--Speaking of cast time how about improving chain cast skill so that it does not disappear immediately with a single skill after arrows? Should make it retain the buff as long as the player keeps using magic skills after arrows and only end by other types of skills, this might even give a rise to the unorthodox ampr mage.
--Magic wall has lost almost all of its utility coz of its low range and bosses that neutralize or resist knockback. How about making the skill an actual obstacle on the field that prevents the enemy from moving towards you properly instead of just giving them knockbacks? The wall can have a set amount of hp based on casters hp and take damage for every sec it contacts the enemy based on their level. I know suzuki's team is too incompetent to make something entirely new like this but I can still dream.
--Blast is only used for its aoe ailment inflict which can have a proper rework so that different elements also give different buffs based on said element. Either that or improve the ailment system and make ailments like freeze and slow actually useful at bosses.
--Finally finale (Pun intended), I want it to be better at what it does which is deal damage, as simple as that. First of MAKE IT GET ELEMENT FROM STAFF. The entire gimmick of magic skills is them changing names and traits based on their element however now you release a skill which is the staple for mages but has a fixed neutral element?? Also remove its placed tag so that the damage can be boosted by srd/lrd or improve magic crit so that its damage can actually grow well. Also make CSPD AFFECT ITS CASTTIME, NOT AGGRO, NO ONE WANTS -30 AGGRO FOR 1000CSPD. It is ridiculous how the currently strongest magic skill is absolutely nothing like the magic skills of the earlier lvl caps
--Skills that I dont mind having no change: arrows as long as they make chain cast more useful, storm coz of its mob farming utility, javelin/blast coz of their different ailments if they add more ailment weak bosses at least they will have uses, Impact for non staff/md users can take a lil bit more nerf if not then I dont really care, mp charge/maximizer dont need changes either.

 

All for Finale getting Element from Staff! But I also want some Additional Effects with Element Finale… like Light also healing caster's HP by a significant amount? Also name change… like Holy, or Faith, and changing the animation to many columns of light in an area centered around the targeted enemy instead of the standard one? Though they could be sued by Square Enix for that

 

in Epic Battle Fantasy it's called "Judgement" and there are no copyright issues.

when i started the game 3.5 years ago and read 'magic changes with the element' i actually expected different skill effects based on elements and was totally disappointed that it's just a (totally unecessary) name change.

 

Arrows/Lances/Storm/Burst: …… guilty as charged.
Javelin/Blast: AM I A JOKE TO YOU!?

Wall is a grey one though… Dark seems to hit earlier than other Elements…… or is it just me?

 

The idea of entire magic tree rework for me is absurd. Perhaps if we coming from a dps perspective its fine since this game got this DPS/dmg mentalities playerbase anyways. but most magic skills have their own effective use.
My support is utilizing almost all of the magic skills except the DPS skills. And i find it reliably effective and satisfying on most farms.

Spoiler: Full Support Gameplay

https://toramonline.com/index.php?threads/toram-support-chronicles.38745/#post-415216

(shameless plug)
Contrary to whats most train many are driving, like staff mages puting LUK for boss/minibosses farms, my support uses MD, got no single LUK, and no DPS skills. thats also partly the reason how i easily adds minstrel skill gameplay to my existing build. I dont have identity issues.

 

Kinda agree there with most here, besides finale the magic skill tree doesn’t have a decent dps skill from t3 down, the most powerful t3 is what lances? And it’s ailment takes loooong to cool down . But honestly the magic deficiency is related to the battle deficiency of toram. All physical skills follow one formula, crt rate crt dog and att. I never see a game where hit rate is such a useless stat and thus everyone spams crt , so here is my idea make finale auto target with crt rate so it won’t miss like other dps do, otherwise besides the cast time dps wise it’s lame on moving targets.

 

You know I loved it when Toram was not just a best damage contest
Long long ago, when the level cap was around 40, the times where no one cared and just played a game because it was fun.

 

As a person thats been maining mage before finale and still am, i say the system needs reworked. Yea finale gets those big number but compared to 2h, dw, and hb users that can just throw down decoy and spam away at bosses we just cant compete against that dps wise. Like other people pointed out mage tree lacks buffs from skills and basically no crit for us so alot of these skill lack that punch. The great thing is these skills do inflict aliments like flinch, freeze, and stop but suprise suprise the boss dies before the cooldown even resets so yea.

Imo the reason you see less and less mage vets is because theres just to many cons for playing as one compared to other classes. If your a finale user and the boss targets you or moves you just wasted that time you spent casting it and having to recharge. Magic flinch makes things borderline irritating if you plan on soloing which is a nightmare as a mage. Compared to physical classes mages doesn't get as many good dps skills especially before you unlock t4 so newer mages are a rare sight.

For the love of God Suzuki dont make our future dps skills aoe based we need a good single target.

 

Got to disagree with you on this. Physical user can spam t4 skills like a madman even when targeted by enemies unlike mage that flinches at everything and can only get maybe a few finales before boss is dead. Assuming those finales even connect if not the time you just used on finale and charge got wasted. Even with 20% miss thats still pretty high and that still might be guarded and asumming you dont get stuck with crackhead naruto glass cannon users that freak out when boss targets them and kites around the map. Because yes i still see capped players doing this because they're like a 5 year old running the house when mom says its bath time.

 

May I suggest something for you guys?

Give feedback to Asobimo. Our discussion here will never reach them if you don't. They said that in the previous livestream, they didn't get much feedback so they don't really know what exactly is wrong with the game.

Overall, we all agree that all Magic skills need to be buffed, not only their damage, but their usefullness too. Give your suggestion on what should be done to this sad skill tree. Whatever your opinion on what makes mages bad etc

Lets just help build this game together