1. Welcome to the Toram Online Forums. Please make sure to read our rules and be friendly to all our members.
    Click here to read the rules before posting.
    Dismiss Notice

About the new evasion system

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by -Kazuki-, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Rizer phoenix

    Rizer phoenix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    125
    I see, thanks :3
     
  2. SirDex

    SirDex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    121
    IGN:
    SirDex
    As someone who used the old evasion system I can say this new evasion is far more better and infact too op and probably needs a bit of a rework.

    The evasion system before this was terrible, you basically gambling and hoping 75% evasion works all the time and that's not the case. Those hardcore players who were soloing difficult bosses didn't jump into battle and beat the boss first time because of 75% evasion, if they played that way for example some halberd players it took them many many attempts and frustration relying on something that isnt guaranteed to work all the time.
    And most hardcore players didn't rely exclusively on 75% evasion and used skills like dive impact, shadow step, storm reaper, madagachi, triple thrust, zantei, pdef and flinch/tumble/stun/knockback to interrupt fast multi attacks like bkd.
    They didn't just stand in the middle of an aoe like an idiot expecting evasion to save them either.
    If you going to cast or try spam skills in solo play or if you have agro in party play before waiting to see the bosses next move and get hit by an aoe or any attack then deaths deserved, this goes for newbies and hardcore players.
    A game isn't supposed to be easy either, expecting and relying on an auto evasion feature to evade everything because of poor play isn't very appealing, if you want gameplay like that go play an auto battler. And that's the beauty of toram and what sets it apart from most other mobile games because it allows you complete control in battle and I think with this new update it's taking the game in the right direction.

    This new evasion is very helpful to newbies and isn't very hard to use. Of course it will take some time to learn but now those newbies with 1k hp can actually have a chance in battle and manually evade aoes and boss attacks if they get agro, the same newbies who were never using 75% evasion and gsw before this update and if they did they died all the time. Infact this new evasion system makes a skill like gsw safer and easier to use now for new players.

    If people want to solo bosses then it's always going to be necessary to learn boss patterns, hardcore player or newbie and that's the point of the game, to learn, progress and get better. A game is never supposed to be easy for a new player or else it would get super boring fast, so at the end of the day if you keep dying by a boss or certain attack whether you're a newbie or hardcore Player then get better and figure out a way to negate it without relying on some auto feature.
    And we have guard now too so if a boss multi attacks and you not good enough to manually evade or interrupt it then click then guard button and all that will happen is you lose your gsw and support buffs, another op feature with this update which can be used on and modified for all builds.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  3. JxyYng

    JxyYng Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    IGN:
    Jxy
    Not sure if you are reading my post correct or not but i didn't say to relay on the 75% and to just stand there. I'm saying we already have so many options that we can use to avoid taking damage and they simply just added another which isn't game changing. The 75% in my opinion was better because if you did make a mistake which everyone does you had a 75% chance of avoiding damage. I don't think the new system needs a nerf if anything i think they can make it better (add iframe). I find it baffling that people think this new system can keep up with bosses with crazy attack patterns. If they made even harder bosses this system won't be able to keep up in my opinion. I say the new system is harder because the only way to avoid damage now is if you time it correctly. There's no room for mistakes. I'm one of those "hardcore" players but since I'm a DW i don't think this new system changed much of anything for me. As you said i already have phantom, reaper, shadowstep, backstep, cross parry, to use adding another option isn't bad, it just doesn't change my game play. The only thing that changed is that if i make a mistake now i will take damage period. Dodge and evasion was the only two options i had to cover my ass when mistakes happen, and now i only have one option which is dodge and we all know dodge (flee) sucks. As i stated before in my other post I'm 100% sure it does help other weapon/class types. Last thing I'm only talking about the evasion system. I would love if DW could use guard too, that to me would be game changing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Phoenix。

    Phoenix。 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    221
    IGN:
    Reydriar
    You can, just equip a heavy armor
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. JxyYng

    JxyYng Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    IGN:
    Jxy
    I didn't even think of that lol. I will test that out. Thanks xD
     
  6. Unetéro Kenora

    Unetéro Kenora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    90
    IGN:
    Kenetero
    Well, it makes some realistic sense, their swords are gigantic and thick, it's a weapon with decent protection potential.
    I would think it's a problem if Halberd got more than that. since it's supposed to be weaker.

    I'm going to test it by myself later, not knowing about what I'm talking is agonizing xd
     
  7. SirDex

    SirDex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    121
    IGN:
    SirDex
    I guess for dw and the bosses with fast crazy attack patterns we just going to have to try adapt and play more careful. I admit it is harder on those types of bosses and needs very fast reaction time and boss knowledge, but I think for the casual newbie Player who isn't trying to solo the hardest bosses it's useful. Take seele for example, if tank dies and someone gets agro most people know and understand her two auto attacks or the sentries attacks so people will be able to evade them without much difficulty and prevent the whole party dying and going town which happened frequently before update and still happens xD
    People Including myself will learn and get used to it.

    I duno I guess it's a catch 22 but I am enjoying it even on dw and it feels cool to be in full control but yeah maybe it's not for everyone.
    I think some bosses are always going to be super op like tryrant machina and aren't meant to be beaten easily even with evasion and skills to dodge, parry and interupt etc.
    Anyway im sure you will adapt and learn to fit it in your playstyle, we all going to have to learn to play with it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Xiavu

    Xiavu Lurking Overlord of LOVE[L.O.L.] Elite Member Epic Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,704
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    IGN:
    Xiavu
    Wonder if anybody dug up the old evasion build and tried killing boss by sheer evasion like a manual phantom slash thing(sorry not a melee guy and have strong dislike in math problems)
     
  9. JxyYng

    JxyYng Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    IGN:
    Jxy
    I'm enjoying it too, i just had higher expectations. I thought it was going to be like bloodbrone and dark souls lol. Hopefully that's the next step.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Kaisyl

    Kaisyl Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    459
    Now they just have to remove the infinite range on auto attacks and this game is golden.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Unetéro Kenora

    Unetéro Kenora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    90
    IGN:
    Kenetero
    Infinite range? you mean... when a boss starts a normal attack on you, you fly kilometers away and it still hits?
    If it isn't it I don't know what this is.
     
  12. Kaisyl

    Kaisyl Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    459
    Yup. They gotta make all auto attacks create a small AoE of 0.5m at target area. That infinite range thing is annoying but baby steps...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Lenwok

    Lenwok Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    509
    IGN:
    Lenwok
    Lol i did this vs NM ico. Only had one single skill on shortcut (flashblast) and killed it purely via autos and the skill which triggered off manusl evasion. It was fun... for like 10minutes :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Lenwok

    Lenwok Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    509
    IGN:
    Lenwok
    You're just too fast at evading. Slow down already :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. 15miles

    15miles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    87
    what condition triggered the blue eva banner with manual evasion?
    can you evade red skills? or still just auto?
     
  16. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    262
    IGN:
    FamousToramPlayer
    [Old evasion]

    Trash. Based on chance and only from normal attack from an enemy. Completely unnecessary. Just a meme stat that had potential, but was limited by short term development thinking.

    [New Evasion]

    Improved mobility, which is something we needed. As back step is trash and buggy if you've ever had to apply it during a boss fight when the boss suddenly changes aggro, and changes their attack.

    What we need is to balance evasion, so it is universal to all attacks, whether targeted or otherwise. Just like guard can be applied against all attacks.

    Having a manual evasion is only useful for mobility. And having to time it for the evasion to trigger is just ridiculous. And almost pointless, as the attacks that will kill you, will still kill you. So much for evasion, when guard would universally save you. Suzuki logic.

    Most people with evasion, aren't aggro holders anyway. Aggro gets pulled by tanks and mage users, as most dps limit their aggro. So having to be targeted to use evasion for the added effect is 'small pp'.

    They need to apply the effect that whether you're targeted or not and apply evasion at the right time you can avoid the damage completely (regardless of attack type), with a trade off of longer charge times for each evasion counter, and less counters.

    For aoes, if you apply evasion when the "!" Appears, it should double or triple the distance you normally travel with evasion.

    If they want to add in the timings, then they need to be realistic. I've done enough party's on ultimate now, that the new evasion is pointless for survival as the non-normal attacks are going to kill you anyway. And you're never going to get targeted with a normal attack unless the aggro holder dies. And all that evading really made no difference, just glorified kiting. So instead of tapping struggle, you get to tap evade, until you die.

    So anyone calling the new evasion OP, needs to play more ultimate boss matches and get shafted.

    The developers need to be more ambitious, as they're not making money from selling revive droplets. They make it from having an enjoyable game, that people feel investing their parents hard earned cash, is worth while.

    At the moment I feel I have wasted like $5000 US to have Suzuki piss in my face.
     
  17. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    IGN:
    Red_Fox
    when set to auto-mode, it will trigger on AoEs while running through them.
    the condition is that you move (same as manual) and there is no other attack warning in the direction you are moving.
    then instead of the dash move you will avoid damage with the blue evasion tag.
     
  18. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    262
    IGN:
    FamousToramPlayer
    Are you sure about that, I have not had the new evasion automatically trigger on default
     
  19. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    IGN:
    Red_Fox
    i thoroughly tested evasion on everything. (haven't investigated guard much yet)
    to trigger the flag on auto-mode you have to be inside the AoE while moving and facing to a direction where there is no other attack warning.
    unless it's a large or fast AoE you usually walk out of the area before it hits, so you have to voluntarily run around inside the AoE to trigger it.
    also, auto-mode does not react to single, bullet and bowling attacks.
    theoretically you can run through meteors and spikes unharmed as long as your stack is not empty, but practically those usually come in groups and any other in your movement direction will disable auto-evasion.

    Double Stab is not really a viable dps option, it's just a bonus that happens from time to time. (especially in a battle with multiple enemies)
    the skill is still mostly the same as before, the damage bonus just transferred from auto-attacks to dagger skills, making it more effective.
     
  20. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    262
    IGN:
    FamousToramPlayer
    Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.

    I feel they need to make evasion more useful. Outside of the increased mobility, it should allow players to avoid all attacks with the trade off of less evasion tokens and longer recharge times.

    The timing element to evasion should be available for any attack (normal, aoe shape, damage type), regardless of whether you're targeted or not. They have placed way too many restrictions on evasion to make it anything more than a minor movement boost.

    Current restrictions: Evasion and double stab.
    - Limited to circular aoes or normal attacks
    - evasion triggers based on timing or time spent inside standard aoes.
    - Double stab. Only triggers if targeted (but I assume standard aoes too?).
    - Dodge rate will negate evasion.
    - Requires competing for aggro to create an opportunity to use double stab.
    - Has a 10 second cool down.

    Like...I love that they considered how to balance this skill with benefits and shortfalls. But all the other skills in the game... don't require any complex set up.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page