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Heal pt with my tank?

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by repp730162, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Zufeng

    Zufeng Well-Known Member

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    Kill them twice, make sure that they are deader than the dead then kick them out
    These little shits always irritate me to no end
    Tanks are not your goddamn swiss army multitool

    Seriously, its goddamn baffling that many dps dies in 1 hit (Unless if you use gsw)
    Like, we have S.Roga and Hp food buff and you can easily reach 10k hp with those alone.
     
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  2. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    I suppose I'm a demi-god then. Tanks are glorified leeches. If you do play tank you have to have that kind of mindset of supporting your party whatever you can. Otherwise once stat points and skill points reaches the point where a tanky dps is enough to tank bosses, a support meta wont last in the future. So yea I advocate for tanks to add support skills to their repertoire. With party optimization, the tank is really the best role to do support and min max the battles. Regarding healing your members, I would like for it to actually matters, so something like a support hybrid classes will be more viable. Call me a masochist if you want but I take pride in my support tank. If you're getting blamed for whatever shit they got, just ask them explain the reason and you might actually be in the wrong. If I were the dps and the tank ain't doing the minimum standard acceptable, I would also at least give the pointers to what they can improve on. The key here is always to have a good communication.

    Yes, tanks are swiss army tool, ideally speaking. I really don't like a minimum effort by blacksmith tank users. Optimization wise, reviving dead members might be more beneficial than having a beefy dps without gsw. The problem is not that tanks aren't supposed to do supports/obliged to, its just the matter of players attitude.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  3. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

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    If i only want berserk as agro, do i need to max it? Or lv1 is enough.
    Trying to build a tank here. Thanks.
     
  4. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

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    Im knuck tank (I know the def/mdef pinalty was high but I've got a lot of resistance from eq and just use aggro food) so I max berserk for better motion speed & ampr.
    Tank with 1500+ aspd and power wave (so I can do ampr from long range if boss move too much)
    So if u just wanna berserk for aggro lv1 is okay.
     
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  5. PutuKarma

    PutuKarma Well-Known Member

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    If you learn pdef, i think it's better to learn fareth instead of berserk and let warcry for lv1 (if you intended to use warcry). While berserk giving a fixed ASPD, fareth on the other side didnt give exact ASPD but there're no downside when casting it compared to berserk.
    As for the aggro from those skills, i think both will generate same aggro since both of em are self buff skills
     
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  6. AliceYvne

    AliceYvne Elite Member Elite Member

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    my tank character also able to done all the job I mention, but not 3 member at the same times and Mana Management will going to very difficult.

    Tank is not a best roles to be a support, those DPS with high mana regen only is, especially mage or sub-MD build. Tank need make sure the boss in between himself and the DPS, so boss will always face to you and your DPS at behind the boss, so the skill won’t reach your DPS easily. Thus Tank must not change it stand point not only to cover his DPS but also because of the santuary skill and the new knight skill. Yes tank may have more than enough skill point to get healing and Revive, but to save 1 DPS and cause another 2 DPS dying , is it worth?

    beside tank learn mana regen skill not to regen teammates mana, is one of the tactic on own mana management, it’s for ownself purpose.
     
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  7. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

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    Never use it but maybe I'll take it,so I've got berserk and fareth for more aspd & fast aggro generator
     
  8. PutuKarma

    PutuKarma Well-Known Member

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    I think it will be redundant, but well, who know how it will end up
     
  9. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Actually, being in the close proximity of the boss optimize decoys mp recovery. I never had a problem with mp reserve if decoy is intact. Mages aren't even come to close in term of mp pool. The thing with tanks is that they have the most action window to do stuff and others could focus on spamming their skills. That's why the first thing I did is to ditch p. Def style of tanking and go with maxhp+resistance+sanctuary scheme to give more leeway to do other stuff. Then regarding reviving members, I have my fair share of reviving one dead members while keeping the boss at bay, 24m is a really long radius, that's why I always recommend heal for tanks. First aid is only used in case of a dps wipe. And yes it is worth it to have a reviver in a party, its not that hard nor risky to do so. Thats why I made a guide on tanks, one that have the least effort in term of survivability while maximizing versatility.
    There are some stuff I've been working on to further optimize my tank, mainly to enhance ampr, motion speed and cast speed, which would allow a faster action time. The optimum solution is to have a burst mage with aura skills, quick motion, high cycle and magic barrier offers great support that couldn't be achieved by tanks. Magic barrier gives you 20% damage reduction, which is quite significant. Quick motion and high cycle gives you some flat aspd and cspd, even if tanks have low innate aspd and cspd. Tank IS the best role to do support, with 3 main reasons:
    1)Decoy have more reliability compared to other class due to tanks being in close proximity of the boss.
    2)You don't expect a high damage output so tanks can do a support skill spam without really affecting the damage output of your party. Mp reserve is solved with the 1st point.
    3)Tanks have the highest survivability, meaning you'd be the last one standing on hard bosses.

    The reason why I kept saying that tanks are glorified leech is because normal full support classes are just leeches. The difference with tanks is that they still have a big role and impact just by attracting the boss and surviving, which is technically the best support a party can have. So yeah tanks are at the peak of supports in the current meta.

    More motion speed is always good. You don't have to use them on a same combo to keep them short.
     
  10. AliceYvne

    AliceYvne Elite Member Elite Member

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    Tank can take support roles only they capable to,

    reason 1 : high active boss have more pattern then less active boss, which mean the gap between each pattern is less and player need to react faster then usual. And yes Heal cast range is 24m but you still require 2-3 second to complete 1 heal, and each heal only reduce 30 second + 300 MP as cost. You need about 8-10 times heal ( total 2400-3000 mana ) to revive 1 player if they don’t have play dead, even though they have, still need 3-5 times heal (900 - 1500 mana). You need a total 10~30 seconds to revive a player, and that time enough boss to kill another 2 noob player and may including tank itself because busy on healing the other.

    Reason 2 : Almost every latest release boss have aggro ignorance skill which can instantly kill a noob glass cannon, protection and aegis have not much effect on DPS player especially those DPS using suicide skill like GSW, thus both skill is mainly help on tank itself not the DPS.

    reason 3 : Decoy is useless on high active boss because it’s frequent moving, even Decoy by Bow-dps can’t get much hit on it. In this case Tank itself will have more difficulty on mana regen, if they still spend mana on healing the dying player it’s will make the game more worst.

    reason 4 : no matter how much resistant the tank have or even with santuary and huge HP,fatal, fractional and ignite still can kill tank easily.

    4 reason above may not apply to all the mob, but if we go back to low active boss like venena or dark dragon, then chance of support is more less because concentrate on DPS is much more faster unless those DPS stand still on boss meteor skill and keep dying, but this nothing a tank can do because even revive them they will still dead after few seconds.

    at last, Tank can be a good support if and only if they able to complete the tank roles, which is draw aggro, keep survive and lock, else they should pass the support roles to other party members so they won’t be a jack-of-all-trade, and this is what suppose a [Party] should be, everyone have a fix roles and fix job to done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  11. Zufeng

    Zufeng Well-Known Member

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    Of course as tank, i will try to rev my dead teammates if it possible.
    The problem is when dps expect you to keep reviving them or healing them, especially if said dps is glass that dies immediately the second they are revived
    In past on Venena, its common for me to see dps spamming rev on chat only for them to die shortly after being revived before spamming rev again.

    As Alice said, it depends on the bosses and users itself.
    Since I have a crap device which means its hard for me to do support, I prioritize myself first, then dps later
    The least I can do is reviving if it possible, and if dps (especially glass/gsw) dies then it's their own damn fault for dying on the first place (except if the atk need interrupt and I fails or if I accidentally triggered counter atk)
    As for bosses is pretty explanatory, some moves around a lot, some ignore aggro, while some spam high frac and fatal atk, need to adapt to different bosses
     
  12. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

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    yeah, some new boss really push us to stop inflict ailment/interrupt and not a lot of people know this or they just don't care what will happen until boss do 1 shot 1 kill move. (like vulture hp% different interrupt phase)
     

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