Katana-mage build

Without conversion, I don't see it getting anywhere as a damage dealer.

Here's the pros of magic with katana:
-katana have high stability, your magic would be really stable with two handed passive. And magic don't graze.
-your auras can be used with melee style. All you have to do is to counter every attacks using zantei and ransei zannou.

The cons:
-there are too many contradicting factors, which renders it not very practical on party play. Seeing as you want to do some support oriented build with parties the prospect is even worse than a full support build

 

..Having finally reached T4 skills, I have learned much, so, I did an edit that corrects / plans to correct, many of the above issues (& goes more into a "Ninja" (poison+Ignite) Dagger/Ktn build) Haha.

Ty, btw, for these tips. Very much appreciated. ^_^
(Should be helpful in the new build)

PS:
I agree, on the "new internal classifications" req'd.

I'll have to look further into the Spirit Dancer.

Also, I find Dark Power's "Stinger" (1-2 stacks) > "Bite" (both maxed out), to be a nice "massive dmg + Self-healing" setup. (Especially when combined with Bouncing Blade's counter-attack. xD)​

Question:
Would Holy Fist be a viable alternative to Dark Power? (Cheaper Spina & Sp costs. Haha)​

Note:
"situations where bosses are unreachable by any attacks except for magic are very rare, and even then it is not unlikely that there is another caster in the party who can do better than you."

<- Ie: most of the Lv120+ bosses, (especially those "Chenobia" (sp?) based bosses, with all their spike attacks!!). *wink wink*

Question:

1. Can magic make use of AMPR?
   • If so, How?
   • (I tried using the Spirit's Tear staff on my mage, but.. failed mp recovery via Storm..)

 

Oh! Those Auras!!

For the uneducated:
Referring to the Support Auras, that requires "no dmg to sustain". ^_^

Hmm.. This might be a fun add-on for the upcoming Ninja (mine, not Abismo) build! xD

PS:
..Wish we could craft blank daggers..

Question:
What's the maximum SP allowance?

(Far as I know, the Coyrn Club calculator doesn't show this concept, so..)

Also:
What's the best way/s to submit to Abismo?

 

So did you give up on making a katana+magic? I'll be honest with you, it sucks. Its nothing but a hipster build, builds that are created just to be different from others.

I really see no clear direction to whatever you're currently doing. As it stands you're just throwing bits of ideas without much of a conclusion.

For your information, the current total SP you can get is about 287 points.

Mp recovery issues can be solved with several ways:
-mp charge+maximizer, but this require you staff or magic device to have a worth.
-war cry of struggle, you gain 300mp at the cost of 100mp when your hp is 50% of lower.
-auto attacks with high ampr stats and ampr boosting skillls
-resonance, which balances your HP and MP, for example if you have 100% hp and 0mp, you can use resonance to recover 50% of your max mp by exchanging 50% of your hp. But this requires a magic device sub.
-decoy shot, it recovers your mp with each if the shadow's auto attack. The shadow has the same range as your weapon's range and will recover the mp based on your current ampr stat. The catch is it staggers when it got hit by aoe attacks and have the same hit and crit stats as yours to hit the enemy. Without enough of them the shadow don't recover mp at all as their attacks would miss. These limitations are lifted for bows and bowguns. For ither weapons you have to get high enough crit rate.
-you can use wizard skills' mana crystal, but you'd need to use staff or magic device to use wizard skills

 

for a quick 1mp attack, yes. for damage, no.

AMPR = Attack MP Recovery
you need to attack with the weapon -> auto attacks
(doesn't apply to skills, except Decoy Shot)

on the official site, you can find their mail address at the bottom of the "contact us" page.
you can also directly send a mail from within the game. somewhere in the main menu (probably orb shop) there's a contact button.
sending in-game will flag the mail according to the selected category (feedback, bug report, ect.) making it more likely to be noticed. (they don't reply personally, though)

 

Sorta both, I spose. More re-advising the build, to go more katana/dagger build, supported by mage, using a strong emphasis on Ignite & poison.

Stat & gear = likely the same, albeit may need tweaking.

However, this isn't because of the lack of gear / skill support, but because several of the mage skills hinders/ negates the katana skills. Namely "Shuchuki". (2h bonus is an ok loss)

Ie: too many T3/T4 mage skills = staff / MD required. Thus, unless katana gets an MD Support, you can't do magic.
..Not effectively, anyways...I think.

So, I say, save the sp, &, stop at "Javalin" (maxed).

• However, one can grab Storm &/or Final, too, if desired.
• Final can be a great substitute / support for Garyou Tensei.
• Especially for not-Garyou-equipped (for those false showings of 1mil damage combos.)

​

PS:
Kinda pissed-off on these types of showings, because they (feel) misleading. They typically don't happen in real, high-end boss fights.. (that I've experienced personally anyway..than again, I've only solo'd).

• Idk why, but my damage is way low. (~5-6k autos, ~10k most hits, almost non-stop crits).
  • Many new players experience this, even when we have: proper stats, what seems like good NPC / Dropped gear, & refining.
    • Than again, I have more tank-resist, gear, so..

Also peeved, cuz many builds assume you have access to T4..or, just simply forget new players looking. -_-
​

• Tbh, the real issues, I spose, is, I'm too inexperienced, to do this smoothly. ^_^
  • I just know "Avoid Magic Wave & Maximizer".
  • Katana T3 & T4 skills are too mp-heavy, that I, personally, struggle with building the two end-game Katana combos.
    • Meaning: Decoy & heavy AMPR is Neccessary.
  • Final needs some sort of shielding stop-gap, to cast it reliably.
  • Battle Skills tree is (most likely) Neccessary for high damage output.

(End of self-pitying tirade) haha. ^_^

PS:
Thanks! ^_^

Guess I needed to express this disappointed disaster, after reaching 150, & feeling like a flop.

I know the (or, some of the) issues. I just need to test on a new toon with T4s, & "keep poking the bear", as they say. ^_^

 

Learning new stuff is a part of the game, those builds videos might seem misleading but they're not cheating. There're reasons behind every numbers. Most of these supposed "builds" videos are simply people showing off their progress, they usually have high end stuff. But there are also videos made taking low budget players to an account. Even then it still require you an adequate knowledge or else you might find them underwhelming since you don't know what to expect. Ultimately once you know your stuff, you don't really have to "follow" these builds, you only need to see the concept and some workings behind them. One of my favorite thing to do on YouTube is to nitpick these builds videos, to see the stuff that makes less sense and point them out for others to see.

For any aspiring new players, I'd suggest anyone to read the tome of offense guide on the game guides section. It offers you the basics on how the mechanics of Toram works. An almost complete skill tree list can be found on amino, which have stuff like the explanation and the formula of the skills.

Stats distribution is like the tip of the iceberg, there are lots of stuff going into the making of the numbers that's shown on those build videos. Tome of offense covers the fundamentals of it. You can find it here:
https://toramonline.com/index.php?threads/thexiiithguys-tome-of-offense.50196/

 

..Apparently I didn't fully understood this (AMPR) thing before. Haha. Thanks for the clarification. ^_^

PS:
Was meaning as an "DPS HP Healing", on the Holy Fist thing. ^_^

Question:
Does ASPD count on Decoy?

Ah. Kk. Tried it once, ingame, to send a bug report. Wasn't sure how that went (aside from said bug disappearing afterwards...) cuz of the wierd auto-reply thing reasking the same details as the survey.. :/

However, thanks. I'll have to try submitting a request for both the Shuchiki failures when "Magic Wave" is gained, &, the hopeful addition to Katana/MD support.

(Or, to have some sort of Katana/Qi conversion thingamajig. Lol)

 

Thanks! xD

I'll have to go to said "Tome of Offense" thing! xD

PS:
I know the numbers are accurate. The part I find misleading, is:

1. Lack of gear emphasis (most do a rushed showing of gear..)
2. Practicality of said skills on hard bosses.

(Like Lil Empress Vena, or, any of the +120s bosses, that have lots of Fatal &/or Tank-buster skills..)

However, I could always search for boss walkthrough videos.. haha.

PS:
Now I see why you comment on vids the way you do.. !_! <- lightbulbs. Haha

 

PS:
Need someone to review op editing, please.. Thanks in advance. ^_^

 

neither the ice katana nor modestia are fire-elemental.
javelin and blast just for the ailment is redundant. javelin is cheaper and has a higher ailment rate.
but you won't be dealing significant damage with ignite anyway.

power wave disabling shukuchi is not a bug.
shukuchi only activates when you are outside your weapon's attack range. power wave extends the attack range, so you would have to be even farther away for shukuchi.

for ampr, katanas must use their slide ability (holding the movepad on auto-attacks and certain katana skills makes you slide in that direction after attacking) to gain distance and activate shukuchi.
the 4th tier skill kaikiri ranshin also boosts ampr and normal attack power.

overall you have too many skills. every 4th tier skill costs 30-40 skill points. even if you do get all the skills you mentioned, you won't have enough mp to use them all, and even if you do, you won't deal considerable damage.
adding dances and auras to this will not help the situation improve...

the 2% matk you get from holy knife doesn't compare to the 50% atk you gave up by equipping dagggers.
just like katanas are not good with magic, daggers don't boost magic either.

your 1st post is much more messy than first time i saw it. it's not going well and i don't think this build idea can be fixed.
basically you giving away all of the katana's potential to obtain far inferior abilities that don't work well together.

if you want a ninja, forget about magic.
katana/dagger is still "weak" but not impossible.
if you want a magical, ninja try a staff/dagger build.
(that would be my expertise)

 

Beginners Tips:

1. Ask for help nicely.
2. T3 skills = Lv75; T4 Skills = 150 (most trees)
3. Rush to 150, ASAP!!
   • Main quest (mq) is the fast way.
   • Trust me. Having T4s early on next toon, makes a world of difference..
   • Save all sp, from Lv100 - 150, for T4s!!
4. Events = best gear
5. Many "builds" on the Forums, assume you have access to T4 skills & understand the lingo.
   • Take them with a grain of salt until you have access.
   • Then use one of the free resets to rebuild properly.
   • Ie: Rush main toon to 150 ASAP, then rebuild.
     • Main quest (mq) is best method of doing this.
6. Don't be afraid to use the other character slots as "mat Farmer" & "gear maker".
   • Game gives 4 free.
     • 1st at creation
     • 2nd at ~2hrs total gameplay
     • 3rd at ~7hrs total gameplay
     • 4th at completion of Ch5 / Ch6
7. Best source of money:
   • Farm Mino skins > turn 99 (stack) into Anti-Degrations via NPC near "Consignment Board" (CB) > sell 99 (stack) of Anti-dreg at CB for $300k

(I've tried to tailor this guide to help you, new player)
(End Intro for newbies)

 

Pics of beginning build, now in op. ^_^

I'll do actual vids of combat, when it's built more.

(Still learning what goes where, so..

*mumbles abbot stupid T4s being "complicated & mana-hungry"..*

 

I'll have to address this later, when I've more time.

(Probably late Sunday / Monday. Depends on the wife, need for sleep, &, the cats waking us early. Haha)

 

That's great, so from the way you're progressing then we can expect videos after few months. Ok, looking forward to it. ^_^

 

So I know what, exactly, is expected, what kind of videos are ya'll waiting to see? xD

Ie: high damage? Survival? Combat in a specific boss? Quick kills? Overall flavor of (my) personality in several types of battles? Rankings (bosses)?

 

That's a lot of stuffs to consider on your end.

We're just spectators on how you want to showcase your theory build.

Personally, I just want to it in action, but ofc battle worth is already given. ^_^

 

Disclaimer:
Before I address each point, please forgive the "shortness of temperament", that may be present.
I'm just getting tired of the constant, nitpicking of ignorant, unhelpful, condescending comments / people.

(Like the question abbot Int = not helpful to Katana.

• Um..hello! Anyone that is familiar with RPGs, knows that magic = Int.
• Anyone who can read the title, know this is to build a Katana-mage!
• Anyone familiar with Toram, knows that Mage = Int+Dex.
• The Katana is for flavor &/or improved mobility.

(Sorry. This, along with the post below, has just been eating at me. Especially considering how widespread this type of commentary is, throughout the forums..)

Obviously *rolls eyes*. ..sorry, but it is..

*says nicer, & more normal* Anything with Ice in its name, typically isn't fire.. Or, at least I would hope so..

Also, note that these are listed in the "100% Criticals" section.

Lastly, I did note that that Ice Ace Katana was best for farming / mage-roles..

True. However, I'll have to see the differences in the uses of ignite vs no ignite, to really make that call.

• Unless someone already did this comparison..?
• Please share the link to such, if they have.. Thanks! ^_^

Thanks for clearing this up. ;*

• Conclusion: avoid Magic Wave. (As was previously noted..) haha

Yay! Another skill that drains my low hp! (Minor sarcasm)

• Tbh, if I'm going to whittle said hp for damage, I'd rather use Stinger (Dark Power), where I can then regain lost hp via its "now boosted" companion, Bite..

Most T4s are 30 points.

• You realize that most classes share this MP / SP delima, yeah?

• Tbh, I think the reasons behind both T4s and Lv 200 cap, is because Abismo finally realized, "Oh, snap! We made this game too hard! Let's give our players useful damage boosts, before we tank!"..

​

• You also, do realize, how many T4s are used by traditional katana builds, yeah?
• Probably the same I'll use, by skipping many other trees.
  • Especially those that boost speed.
• PS:

Why do we need these (speed) boosts?! (Rhetorical)

• Because many T3 & T4 katana skills, are so slow!!
• Chaining them = "add lots of ASPD" or die..
  • Ie: lots of raw damage lost, or, stuck in a cookie-cutter build. (Especially gear..)
• ..Hopefully improving usable mage skills helps with this quickness..

True. Choco Dagger would probably be better.

• ..Rather than giving downer-brownie points, how about giving alternative solutions, to help boost the overall performances?

..Well.. Thanks for the downer-brownie.. (sarcasm)

• Instead of giving unhealthy, unhelpful criticism, how abbot helping this become less messy, by ..oh..Idk.. answering the questions therein?
  • Most of this "mess", is because of my request for help, in areas that I don't know.

The latter lacks both the flavor / visuals, of a Ninja..

Closure:
All in all, I'll have to show many of these points, to stand as the ultimate rebuttal.

*sighs & says non-sarcasticly*

PS:
Thanks for the ideas, on what vids I need to show! xD

 

Just making a list of "needed" videos here, so as to help me keep track of the whats this build emphasizes. ^_^

• Ignite vs no Ignite
  • poison add-on vers as well (via mino, for fast tests)
• (My) improperly skill-boosted Garyuo (because I was a katana-tank without T4s..) vs properly made mage's Finale (hopefully it is..) vs Katana-mage Garyou AND Finale (via Evil Beast, for real-world applications)
• Typical unboosted (skill wise) ASPD of Katana T4 combo (via Mino for easy, real-time applications)
  • Again. I didn't have T4s as I built main character AND ~1k ASPD was (typically) fine..til T4s..
  • (Link / screenshot of) Full Ninja / Katana-mage Skill Tree expectations (done on Coyrn calculator)
    • Done. See post on 3rd page, for this information. ^_^

• Support Pet:
  • See my "pet testing" Journal, for my attempts to improve this class, via saving SP.
  • https://toramonline.com/index.php?threads/my-pet-building-test-journal.51709/#post-528732

• Other ideas to be noted (place marker)

Last update:

• 12 Aug 20
  • Pet Journal added
  • Expected SP calculator (reference noted)

​

 

of course
i also tried to make a magic ninja build when i started. it's been 5 years now, i daresay i know the most about magic. and i always made mages that were different from the popular set.

Toram is somewhat different from the classic RPGs.
but even in RPGs, the samurai characters were always the weakest with magic.
this doesn't mean that it's not possible, but you will certainly not find the dps you seek in magic.

a quick example:
katana gets 1.5 matk from INT and 1 from DEX, for a total of 2.5
every other weapon gets a total of 4
staff, MD and knuckles get a total of 5

you'll get only half as much matk as everyone else, and most magic skills are only half as powerful when you don't have a staff/MD equipped.
effectively you'll only get a quarter of the magic power that others have.

i agree with the flavour, mobility is debatable.
flavour always comes with compromises.
especially in this case.

i posted the formula for ignite damage.
with 255 DEX and INT i calculate 563 ignite damage.
more if your matk is higher than that, but ultimately ignite damage does not get much higher than your total matk.
adding up the 4 hits, the total damage is about the same as the damage from javelin.
and magic arrows is stronger than that.

poison works a little different, since the hit count depends on the enemies speed, but on average the poison damage doesn't exceed the knife damage.

it was meant for ampr, since you said mp charge takes too long

there's nothing you can do about improving the magic side.
removing daggers to use the Two-Handed skill boosts your physical attacks enormously.
if you want to use daggers, remove magic. you cannot have both and expect it to be good.
daggers are not magical.