1. Welcome to the Toram Online Forums. Please make sure to read our rules and be friendly to all our members.
    Click here to read the rules before posting.
    Dismiss Notice

Let's finally formally address Knuckles.

Discussion in 'Brawler' started by The Brahmnic Boy, Jul 26, 2020.

Tags:
?

Do you think Knuckles is absolutely fine as it is?

  1. Yes

    22.2%
  2. No

    77.8%
  1. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    8
    IGN:
    Safile
    well, if you compare the types of weapons, all weapons get some unique skills by themselves :
    1H - All rounder.
    2H - Heavy damage.
    Hb - Heavy damage & anti armor.
    Bow - Heavy burst damage & anti armor.
    Bowgun - Anti armor & all rounder.
    Katana - Counter & medium damage to heavy damage.
    Md - Biggest aoe with less damage, support.
    Staff - High damage with less aoe, support.
    Dw - almost invicible, high damage & faster skill spammer.
    Knuck - All rounder, burst damage, dps, intterutper, support.

    Asobimo didn't tell us about "how to go well with a job" but "choose your weapon & your skill by yourself then massacrace any bosses".
    (I really want to see some skills just for Md & rebalance flat stat for weapon or bonus from stat for knuck & Md *sigh*)

    I know I shouldn't say this......but with this (weapons) if you can't be an attacker then try tanks if you can't then try support if you can't try magic if you still can't do anything try another weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  2. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    209
    IGN:
    Brahmnic
    Once again, this is NOT a goddamn personal problems post. This is for discussing Knuckles as a class, and not my incompetency at using Knuckles.

    The point I wanted to stress was that I can get a high ATK sword, refined, for only 84K, while I need to get a Red steel Tonfa to match up, or get another expensive Physical pierece knuckles, and the fact that with 115 AGI still I had low ATK.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Sad Sad x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    8
    IGN:
    Safile
    What can I say.....yep that was asobimo :3
     
  4. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    Red steel tonfa is considered cheap. You only need to open around 10 red steel box to get it.

    But you need to refine it your self.
     
  5. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    IGN:
    AZlN
    Idk why everytime asobimo release a high atk knuckles you really need to sacrifice your aspd. Best example is redsteel tonfa that has a wopping -750 aspd. Also theres master tonfa that you need to sacrifice everything for crt rate so full aspd build is gone. Ffs give some love to aspd builds ;-;
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    They want you to use gsw :v
    high speed, huge dmg knuckle that ignore boss atk is too op, they think.
     
  7. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    209
    IGN:
    Brahmnic
    Also, to any new player, it would seem like Knuckles is Asobimo's favorite Weapon.
    My friend complained that Knuckles got 2 trees of their own and also have Magic if one wants to focus on MATK.

    Other Weapons have only one skill tree, or have to share with other Weapons. And that's when it HIT me. We have 3 skill trees to choose from, and we still have to depend on skills from other trees like Shadow walk and GSW to be good.
    Just because you can give a monkey a sword doesn't mean the monkey is a good fighter.
     
  8. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    I think you mean a kid having two or three swords is no better than a swordsman holding a knife.

    Knuckle low base atk create many problem.

    But not anymore with sub dagger. Sicarius really help knuckle. You can equip ice cape or squirrel tail for additional pierce for a total of 40%. That's huge. Even more with avatar stats.

    But I'm still greedy. It's just unfair for knuckle base stats atk gain.

    I guess wait until u can add 500 agi for rush having 19 skill multiplier.

    Need the kid (knuckle) to grow up as teenager first XD
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  9. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    209
    IGN:
    Brahmnic
    Let's assume that the Base damage dealt after all calculations(involving boss defense) for auto attacks is 500, and would be 500 if it was for Magic too.
    So, the Skill formula is Final Damage = (500+constant) * (Multiplier)
    <Of course I am leaving out Critical and other buffs that are applied after this calculation>

    In this scenario,
    Chariot = 15500 for 300 AGI
    Rush = 13500 for 300 AGI
    Goliath = 28000 without Godhand stack
    And 49000 with full stacks
    God Hand = 9000
    Magic Lances = 10950 for 3 attacks
    Burst = (22500) at 300 INT
    Finale = 108500 + 16000 + 5300

    Since putting 300 AGI would give me 600 ATK, and 300 INT would give me 1200 MATK, it's better to ignore everything in the two Knuckle trees (except Martial Mastery and Discipline) and just go full magic.

    And don't talk about Annihilator, it increases weapon ATK, and with (Magicblade: Conversion) it contributes the same amount to MATK.

    This shows that, on an equal footing, Finale's second hit does more damage than Rush and Chariot, and Finale main just outclasses Goliath. But, Knuckles doesn't even give AN equal footing to both, it gives the already strong magic skills better MATK gain from INT than ATK gain from AGI.

    In DPS centred Toram, I'd rather ignore Martial and Crusher trees, and ailments - the only saving grace of Knuckles, is useless on Higher bosses with reactions triggered by them.
    Knuckles is not an all-rounder, it's a Jack of all trades but a master of none.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    You are leaving out the most impotant multiplier xD. And magic user need time to cast finale. The last time i test at mino, they need 8 sec to impact finale smite.
    You can do 2 combo in this time frame.

    Conversion matk bonus is not affected by matk%. So it still make physical build has some advantage.

    Many bosses need specific interrupt to make raid went smoother. And knuckle can provide all of them. Even 50% chance is good. You are not a tank, you are an assistant, it's fine if you failed at the first try.
     
  11. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    209
    IGN:
    Brahmnic
    Imapct finale smite takes 8 sec?
    At max level I assume Impact is instant and Finale is 3 sec?
    MP isn't a problem for magic skill tree, so why does it take 8 sec?
     
  12. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
  13. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    The skill animation for finale without gsw is just that slow.
    Another proof that gsw is too op
     
  14. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    Goliath Punch Lv10 C=500 & M=28 with 5 charges in 5 seconds / Each Godhand charge give +6 Multiplier and maximum M=46 Goliath Punch
    Cross Fire Lvl10 C=400 & M=30 with 3 charges in 8 seconds/M=40 with 4 charges in 18 seconds/M=50 with 5 charges in 35 seconds
    Goliath Punch charges revert to 1 when inflicted Lethargy ailment, mp cost 500

    Cross Fire stop charging when getting hit, mp cost 400
    I wonder if Goliath Punch is really that bad.. Even with annihilator weapon atk buff? P.S. C=skill constant, M=skill multiplier
     
  15. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    I guess one of the buffs that brawlers need is one or two proper ampr brawler skills. Another one is one or two invicibility skills since even mage has magic burst with i-frame, and brawler is a melee class
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    Then you should behave like a bow user. Do basic attack and prorate while waiting charges. Make sure u get maximum proration. Don't waste your time spamming rush.

    For invisibility skill, you should take assassin tree for that.
     
  17. Djikstra

    Djikstra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    63
    What rush skill is for? It just gives motion speed ryt? Edit: Ok, so I check. Rush skill gives 10% motion speed bonus. U can use gsw if u plan to walk dps route even tho you become squishy. Rush is pretty expensive too, 400 MP cost
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  18. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    8
    IGN:
    Safile
    but oftentimes better than a master of one.
    :3
    Ok, so knuck not "all rounder" but "adaptable class/versatile class"?.(as dps/mage/tank/support)

    Im not that good with knuck as dps or mage, but when i see knuck at event and always move to warp there are only two points in my mind about this person :
    1.Deals a lot of damage.
    2.Just a tank.
    but this person doesn't use a shield so I stay at number 1.
     
  19. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    103
    IGN:
    VangNir
    Goliath and rush is really different.
    You don't need high aspd for goliath.
    Just stack atk%.
    Goliath seems to be placed skill. Is it affected by short range?
     
  20. repp730162

    repp730162 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    8
    IGN:
    Safile
    Goliath not placed skill and affected by srd%
     

Share This Page