Again.... knuckles is abismos step child....

With toy gun, now i can get 98% pierce
Toy gun 50%
Sicarius 30%
Ice cape 10%
Avatar 8%
With 3k++ atk

 

Penetration oil, 10% PP, 3% ATk

 

Well, the summer event is nice,
No proration, no skills, no combos or no MP.
It's a welcome change. Just skill. Let's hope this is to a better Toram.

 

any game will get Repetitive at some point, but having 5 or more skills sitting there being useless in the skill tree, while repeating very select collection of skills for DPS or whatever you want to do doesn't help in the slightest, it helps the repetitiveness arrive sooner than it normally would if anything.
Seriously, the reason Katana is so popular is that you have a use to almost every skill in it, and 4 DPS skills you can alternate in battle, the cheer Variation is why katana is fun and different from the rest. "Same" for dual swords, as It's very fun but not everything there can be used as efficiently as Katana does.
Tenryu makes auto attacks instant and shukuchi makes it all more fun as the 'mini game' of attack, retreat to 3m>attack is quite fun.
Katana has SOME variation to it.
Knuckle you do what? auto attack does nothing but prorate, Bufskilbuffskillbuffskill goliath... Goliath>BuffskillBuffskill again..
Bow just stands there charging cross fire and avoiding attacks, walking around the map, occasionally using Snipe or satelite.. It's ridiculous to me how the archer that constantly auto attacks has no auto attack unique mechanic or something, Just boring.

I like Toram game style, but for a "Classless'' game, having slight variations of the same class being the actual thing you get, being able to tip your toes in other classes buff skills is not even near what they aimed to achieve. It's a half baked cake, wanting a better cake doesn't mean I hate cakes.
'YoU DoNT LikE THe GaMEPlaY StyLE" is not my problem, I just want a better version of what this game tried to achieve.

When asobimo reworks the combo system and the old Tier skills as they said they would (I think they addressed this very problem of too many skills being useless), I might come back to see if something got better, but for now I'm just done giving this game chances as in so many Years of waiting it just got worse.

 

...what?

 

how about Magic Arrow from hunter skills?
and bowguns can equip daggers to use Hidden Arm
other than that, there is additional melee/magic for an auto-attack mechanic

katanas are also very restricted in their skill choices.
not that it matters much, though... there is no synergy between different skill trees and too many restrictions. (like chain cast and guardian beam not working on magic outside the magic tree)

but with the latest adjustment they considered shields in the blade skill tree. if that continues and all (or most) skills get effects based on stats and equipment, there will be enforced variety and the unpopular skills can get a new purpose.

---
it's not like i would ever stop playing because i'm older, so i can wait.
toram is not my only or my most treasured game either, so i'm somewhat less stressed by the things i don't like.

 

"how about Magic Arrow from hunter skills?
and bowguns can equip daggers to use Hidden Arm"
huhm.. let me correct myself: archers have no good, important or useful auto attacking mechanic.. ._.)
ThefactIforgottheseexistedisquitetelling dont u think?

and well.. yeah, Pure Katana can only use their Own skill tree to it's maximum, katana dagger or arrow doesn't work very well, aside from Bowtana maybe?

When you compare Katana to Bow, or Knuckles, you see these classes often have to repeat the same thing the entire time, Cross fire, wait for charges then release, repeat. Goliath then wait for full charge repeat, they have more freedom to choose from other classes skills it's true, but the main combat style just isn't very Diverse.
Katana has a cool, fast n' cheap Dps skill like tenryu, auto attacking in between is satisfying as the animation itself is swift and stylistic, the crazy ampr it has, you can use madagachi, Senbonzakura (sorry I don't remember the flower petal attack name), garyou tensei, etc...
If you are inside an aoe you can choose between sliding away, using one of the I-frames, Triple strike(? that skill that teleports you to the boss Back), pretty much all the skills in the skill tree has Some use, and the best thing: You have Options.
With other classes you don't really have much options, or much strategy.. Press the Dps skill, again, again, if you use goliath just press it and wait for the charges to stack then repeat..
It's kind of a cake recipe, it's way more repetitive as you don't have other good options and are stuck to a singular skill. (In knux case at least, bow has *a little, Little, LITTLE more options but not that good either..)

It's restricted to it's own skills aside from buff skills from other classess, but as long as it does the job well ant it's fun,it's enough to play, Not good, enough, playable and viable. Would be good to mix classes but current Toram doesn't allow that yet..


(Nothing to do with katana, just me talking bout the connection I have to the game)

I honestly Hope for you to see Toram Ressurge as a new and well made game in the future, if you don't mind the waiting and asobimo fuck ups.

You probably have red it already, but the reason I get so angry with this game not being good is because I truly dedicated my time to it, it is my escape world from all the Shit that happens to me IRL, and for so long it was the only 'world' I cared about, Toram is the reason I found some precious people I know, It inspired my dreams to become an artist and maybe mangaka, and just in general being such a rare Gem in the pile of Pay to Win Generic chibi games there~
I'm not exaggerating saying Toram is a part of my life, I love it with Heart as cliche and dramatic it sounds.
I just wished, that my last memory of it could remain as this fun and heart warming game I used to play, and not this MEEEEESSS asobimo has being doing constantly ruining it. >->
It's very personal to me when they screw up, especially as bad as the recent screw ups that just sound as they don't care.
But I do care, I Care more than people here saying that 'me criticizing the game is because "YoU DOnT LIkE It" might ever think.

I'm working on the anger, it's difficult to not be angry when something being terrible directly affects you, but it's just so infuriating to have asobimo be negligent to your favorite game that much.
I hope you can somewhat relate, or at least understand.

 

The problem is bcs how the skills are designed is based on tier-based skill system which means lower tier skills are generally weaker than stronger tier skills. If only asobimo designs all skills to be able to stand on their own and have their own purpose, there won't be any skill that is useless and just a stepping stone to get higher tier skills.

If you look at bow skill tree lower branch, you can see these skills all can inflict ailment (slow, paralysis, blind, lethargy) to enemy. However, no one bothers to take them except maybe for arm break to be used as save tag and moeba shot for opening combo since all the ailments are kinda lackluster (Yeah, I know lethargy is not really bad. Reduce 30% damage dealt by enemy is kinda good, but with toram's dps meta focusing on taking skills that directly or indirectly buff damage, and also proration mechanic, I won't see these skills will be useful any time soon). Arrow Rain? Decent AOE skill, but there are much better AOE skills on other skill trees. Fatal shot :extend break time, good damage for its low mp cost, good against crit resist bosses, but it is more for support build in my opinion. The only skills that are meta in bow skill tree are snipe (armor break, great filler single target skill) and cross fire (linear aoe burst). How about bulleye? That skill shouldn't even exist. They should just rework bulleye rather than making another good skill like satellite arrow and placing it on hunter skill tree's last tier so we waste another skill points just to get to satellite arrow (Maybe that is what asobimo intent tho)

Let's talk about knuckle's skill tree, smash, bash, sonic wave maybe are good when the game is still on its early stage, but they somehow ruin it by releasing interrupt sensitive bosses later on. Maybe that is the reason why the annihilator on crusher skill tree has this debuff "Chance to inflict any ailments decreases significantly" (To me, what they mean by any ailments maybe includes interrupt skills as well). Earth Bind? Stop ailment is not really good. That is why this skill considered useless, even when they buff it with "For each target hit with this skill, you recover 5% of your MaxHP. Recovery limit is 1000 HP for knuckles main/sub, or 500 HP for other weapons" because we can just rely on potion to heal. The AOE is just too small and one time only. Maybe smash, sonic wave, earth bind are just good only for opening combo if the boss doesn't have the related ailment sensitive trait. Shellbreak? 50% physical pierce, 25% chance to deal armor break, recover 400 MP IF armor break is successful, damage dealt increases as the target's DEF is higher. Ironically, archer has much more reliable skill called snipe to inflict armor break, halberd has this broken skill called dragon tooth that has 75 crit rate, 100% physical pierce, and also with better damage, and shellbreak is not reliable as mana recovery tool. Heavy Smash? Only good for lethargy ailment if you do care about it. Triple Kick? Maybe good against crit resist bosses, but the damage is just underwhelming... Chakra? team buff skill (15 ampr, recover 100 MP, Flat damage reduction is 2×baseVIT and only applies to party members, plus 50% damage reduction), buff duration is until getting hit, 3 seconds charge time. This skill has really niche use. It is only good for knuck support build with focus on high cast speed (AGI-DEX or maybe VIT-DEX). The only meta skills are chariot (ranged good damage dps skill is always good for melee class, plus fear ailment), maybe rush (for 10% motion speed bonus maybe?), and slide (low mp cost mobility skill).

Crusher Skill ! Goliath Punch: finally good burst dps skill for brawler. Combination: good filler 0 mp cost skill with normal atk proration. Forefist Punch and God Hand: two damage reduction skills for brawler main finally! Forefist Punch just reduces damage one time, whereas God Hand always reduces damage while active and also add damage stacks for other crusher damage skills. Breathwork: Maybe heal 20% of HP at lvl 10 with annihilator at lvl 10 too, and heal again half of the previous heal when activating next skill. Half mp cost of next skill used if annihilator skill is at lvl 10. Another impact skill for brawler main. Floating Kick: another mobility skill for brawler. This skill also has niche use. If you make knuck MD ranged brawler build and take power wave to level 5 for getting maximizer, your auto attack will be stuck at 7 m. Since slide's max range activation is 6 m, you need to move 1 m closer. With floating kick's max range activation is 8 m, you won't need to move closer anymore, so you can do floating kick > goliath punch > backstep instead. Overall, kinda well designed in my opinion, but the only meta skills are Goliath Punch and Annihilator for its weapon atk buff duh! The only things that I don't like about are annihilator has too much mp cost (600 mp cost ugh, should be lower, maybe 500 or use HP to activate it), and also Goliath Punch MP cost should be 400 instead with skill constant adjustment of course, but that is just my opinion haha.

I want to talk more about Katana but I am too lazy writing it, so here is the conclusion. The main skills are Tenryu (low mp cost good damage single target skill), Garyou Tensei (burst single target skill, and with the right condition can have 100% physical pierce), Zantei Settetsu (buff: nullify damage once, if Tenryuu Ransei buff is still active when getting hit, counter attack will be replaced by Tenryuu: Zannou which grant 2 secs i-frame), Triple Thrust (mobility skill), and Shukuchi (this is what make Katana interesting!). I don't include Hasso Happa since it is just a decent AOE, and people usually don't max this skill, and also magadachi since people usually rely much more on Zantei since it is much better in term of damage reduction (Magadachi buff : Reduce Physical damage and Fractional damage taken by 90%; reduce Magic Damage taken by 45%. If not getting hit while magadachi buff is active and Tenryuu buff is still active too after magadachi buff ends, normal skill attack will be replaced by Tenryuu: Zannou and grant i-frame for 2 secs. If getting hit while magadachi buff is active, this skill will not do any damage and recover 200 MP instead at lvl 10) and damage even tho magadachi has lower mp cost. However, does this mean katana is not affected by tier-based skill system? Of course not, it still has this problem for lower tier skills generally weaker than higher tier skills.

Correct me if there is anything wrong with what I mention here. Thanks for reading How about you guys opinion?
Edit: From what I have written, I can conclude why there are so many skills useless. First, Lower tier means lower skill damage. Second, most ailment effects on enemy are lackluster which make the related skills kind of useless. Third, proration mechanic, while being creative, it also discourages players to use other active skills, so players are stuck using the same skills that are good and important. Fourth, just poor skill design haha. Fifth, they fuck up brawler when they release interrupt sensitive bosses later on. Maybe there are others? I don't know
P.S.: I guess no one will gonna read all of this haha Why should I bother to write this duh

 

Sonic Wave is rather good for ...... go to the designated post please : https://toramonline.com/index.php?t...lly-address-knuckles.51588/page-2#post-528021

 

Deym in how many years ive been using knuckle as my main this is the first time that i seen this many ppl bitching about it.


You guys need to chill.

 

Actually it is not about knuckle anymore, but about the game in general.

 

No one says sonic wave is bad, it is just not good if you happen to fight bosses that don't like to be tumbled like Pillar Golem, and later bosses

 

Did you even go to the thread to read the rest of the comment? I kept the comment in that thread because it fits better there.

 

Did you even understand what I mean by interrupt sensitive bosses?? These bosses will go berserk if you happen to tumble, flinch, or stun them >_> Yeah I know how good it is. Sonic wave can deal tumble from distant, so what is your problem? It is just bad to be used against these sensitive bosses and most of these bosses are released at later stage of this game!

 

facepalms
Okay, I'll quote the thread, which I wanted you to read:

 

If just for ranged opener skill combo purpose, there are a lot of other skills you can use like gsw, reflex, etc. Not to mention using sonic wave as opener ruin proration for physical skills. Always try to use buff skill as filler or opener since it won't ruin proration for other players. that is why using short combo and only a handful of active skills is meta. Actually, being a good opener skill doesn't mean that skill is good enough according to me.

 

Yeah, yeah
Sonic wave got blablabla for unreactive to tumble bosses for stopping aoe (play with tank u don't need your cc skill again so save more sp).
KnuckMd nice combo blablabla (when you can spam rush-impact, evade, resonance or use goliath at that time).

At this thread there must be alot of players try knuck at least try their skill & combo 1 time.....
oh geez.

 

Just pointing out slides range was buffed to 9m some time ago.

 

Thanks, I dont follow all the update haha

 

Well yeah...most people quit the "class" before getting to invested to start bitching. We're in the healthiest and most popular state Brawler has been in years, and they're still mediocre at best.
(Still the funnest weapon though)