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The fundamental problem with Toram Online

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by The Brahmnic Boy, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

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    indeed make crt a part of fundamental stat and it will be good. Bg can go dex>crt,mages can do int>crt it will be a good choice and would buff those weap that has 1 main stat like knux and bg
     
  2. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    I see the issue being STR and I scoff at that when the fact that yes STR is god stat but it doesn't make a not shitty build less shitty. Mages don't need STR but can still do big boi damage. Yeehaw, we already debunked.

    The issue is the disconnect from players, as why else would crossfire, a skill that was perfectly fine for years, get a buff? Not talking about the buff on bowgun giving it natural Phys Peirce, the one where it accepts ranged tags. Everyone thought that was stupid, on top of giving bonus damage to skills that only Bow can get benefit from.
    Instead of listening to the community, the game looks at face value numbers without crunching the math and ends up making weapons that were already strong stronger and giving unneeded nerfs. Or y'know just ignoring skills entirely

    Examples:
    Meteor Breaker used to give Invince the whole animation time, now ends when you land. In contrast, Storm Reaper has invince for the entire animation duration.
    Dive Impact was given Invincibility.
    Crossfire is affected by LRD and SRD
    Spiral Air no longer crits and now gives a useless buff
    The entire Martial Skilltree is poopoo garbage bar maybe 3 skills (not passives)
    Pets, the most confusing system in this god damn game. Keep in mind; they were nerfed

    As you can tell, the developers have no fucking clue what the hell the people want (or they do but dont care)

    Honestly, stats are fine. STR is god stat, big woop. You couldve made Dex give additional crit rate, people wouldn't invest, could make Int give more exp etc. The only reason people even use STR over Dex on knuckles is because for every 4 dex you get 1 attack which is garbage. Maybe if it gave, oh I don't know, 2 attack per, maybe you see the meta for knuckles go 100 STR with stats going into Dex.

    Str isn't an issue, but the lack of brainpower jn Asobimo HQ sure as fuck is
     
  3. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    Then you get the same issue that STR has but now worse. Gear needs crit investment and now youve gave people a way to just stack damage gear up the ass. The moment they hit 100% crit they'll just stack the fuck out of DPS gears. At least with STR, you still have to get gear with critical investment, limiting your damage potential
     
  4. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

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    But they would choose between 2 stat crt or dmg(str or dmg) also this could balance other weapons that are completely overrun by str weapon. Such as halb would nees to choose atk growth from agi or cd crt on crt stat. Same with katana and bow not having both cd and atk in one single stat. 100crt is easily achievable. 2h can reach 100 crt even without crt on gears.

    It would be a choice between atk stat and cd and i think it will be balance that way
     
  5. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

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    Str is not very op. What make imbalance is decoy shot. You are not supposed to spam high cost skill every 3 sec.
    Decoy make a heavy hitter become a fast hitter. Decoy Hits don't spend rampage stack so 2h greatly benefit from this.

    Another example is the synergy between tenryuu and gsw. Without gsw the amount of tenryuu u can spam in 30 sec is very limited.
    Knuckle will win if you can't use gsw or decoy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  6. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    We've reached a point where you can use tertiary stats without issue. This would do nothing, and in the future it'd do even less
     
  7. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    Ok, so an extremely great point here is brought up; Decoy Shot. Ill ignore GSW because despite it being meta, most people still fucking die.

    Decoy is free MP. Period. Even moreso on weapons with range. Its weird to say but Decoy is more balanced on builds that arent bow than on bow itself, but I digress

    The entirely skill is busted. Free AMPR that doesn't affect proration, takes skill effects, and doesn't remove skills that fade on autos (magic arrow/rampage). The skill has numbed a lot of gameplay into the Impact>Damage(smite)>Ender type of play, its hard to really see any other type of gameplay used.
    While yes, later skills have suddenly gained use (Demon Claw, Chronos Drive, Backstab, and others) the formula hasn't changed at all. They just sifted new skills into the mix. However we've reached a point where an issue like that is unfixable, because if they did fix it... Well THS and OHS would dominate the game. They have 2 skills that can halve MP. And if those were removed then most damaging skills would be too ineffective because smiting them is too much MP to be worth the damage
     
  8. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

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    Could use tertiary stat also could unlock the limiter of your main stat.

    Toram dps is overruns by str weaps.
    Dw uses str>agi
    Halb uses str>agi
    Bow uses dex>str
    Katana uses str>dex

    Those are the highest dps in the game(didnt include 2h since its their main stat)
    Moving cdmg to crt will give them the option to go crt rate and cdmg or atk stat as their secondary.

    Having to choose between this two will balance the dmg output itself.

    Dw would choose between crate+cd or 1atk on both main and sub.

    Halb would choose between motion speed and atk growth or crate and cdmg

    Katana would benefit in this tbh.

    Bow would get crt for cratea and cdmg.

    Getting atk and cdmg in a single stat is op af since both are dmg multiplier
     
  9. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    Already does, they choose stability over damage, cdamage and speed
    They're already glass cannons for the cost of damage
    When the meta katana is still +100 Crit Rate, no. They wouldnt at all
    So back to snipe DPS?
    I don't think you understand how much STR actually effects CD if in the end, you naturally never get over +60 CD from str. Congratz, youve doubles your damage. Now lets insert the inability to crit. Now your gears and skill focus on that. Lets add evasion so you whiff entirely. Now lets add crit Resistance. Now lets add curse ailment that makes crit damage halved.

    Its layered dude, STR is literally a drop in the metaphorical bucket.
     
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  10. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

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    DEX is not a Knuckle stat. Yes, in the game code it might contribute, but we brawlers agree DEX is useless for Knuckles. It increases Stability very pathetically, increases ATK pathetically.

    No, what I mean of the STR dependency is that while other builds don't have any other option other than investing in STR, they essentially get 'free' critical damage.

    Bowguns and Knuckles, on the other hand, have a choice. Since they're based on one stat (DEX for Knuckles does not matter) they can choose to be a 'semi' tank by investing in VIT, maybe invest in CRT to increase Criti rate a bit, perhaps Bowguns can opt AGI to increase ASPD and FLEE, etc.

    However, Bowguns can stand on their own due to better ATK growth from DEX, plus Crossfire madness. However, it has a stability problem, which can be now solved with - you guessed it - STR. Not taking STR not only hurts them by losing out on CDMG, but also lower stability, so it's rather useful to them.

    Knuckles, however are constrained. They can't get anything from STR except CDMG.
    Unlike Bowguns, they cannot ignore the extra damage because : Low ATK growth from AGI, lower multiplier on Goliath punch than Crossfire, Goliath loses stacks, low MP Regen due to non ranged decoy. They desperately need STR to even be visible in the meta.

    Magic : Finale users. Because Burst mages cannot get STR. Yes, Finale does a lotta damage. However, with the new bosses, it's easier to get Flinched, Finale takes a long ass time to cast. Since DEX doesn't affect Finale, it's better to not take it. Because the S in DPS is very long for Finale, the D needs to be higher as well. STR gives extra Stability to Staff, gives extra CDMG, which along with Spellburst/Weaken helps with reaching more damage limits.

    The fundamental problem is that, even if you fixed all the problems I mentioned above, Toram is a DPS centric meta, and if there's a way to increase damage in any way, players will take it.

    What needs fixing is the way damage is multiplied. While SRD/LRD/Unsheathe increase damage by 15 - 30% of Final damage, elemental gear by 60% of Final damage, Criticals straight up Double or Triple your damage.

    It's like, the main stat is Fixed to STR, and other builds are made by choosing the other 3 stats, DEX, AGI or INT.
     
  11. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    It really sounds like a lot of people dont see that knuckles have some of the highest stabiliry in game and are mad they get a grand total of 0 stability from STR when (even after Annihilator) they have decent stability (higher than THS which commonly uses berserk)

    Idk, I really can't help you guys from being shit. STR aint that good a stat.
    Signed- Dude that hit 1m+ with knuckles, Bowgun and is planning to brute force a swordmage to hit 1m+
     
  12. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

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    Also, STR increases Base CD, which means that All CD% stats now gain from the new CD, which is 210.
    A CD%20 CD40 gear (both Arm and Weapon) will increase CD = 292, full rest with Avatar and Food buff.

    That's 3x as much damage as normal.
     
  13. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

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    I don't want Stability on Knuckles. I want that STR shouldn't be necessary to hit heavy, and Knuckles being able to diversify into other Stats.

    Please show me a build without STR in Knuckles that hits 1 million plus damage quickly and consistently.
     
  14. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    So what? Change it to crit necessary to hit heavy? Your solutions are poopoo garbage

    And there isnt a way knuckles can hit 1m Quickly, its just an inferior weapon
     
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  15. Isra

    Isra Cock and Ball Torture Elite Member

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    In the end what it really sounds like is OP is pissed Knuckles doesn't get attack from STR but needs STR for knuckles to have any form of relevance. But then again it's knuckles so it wont have that relevance... Ever

    Not even getting skills with great multipliers and constants helped. Knuckles can be strong but require more set up than other weapons. Not my problem; get good or get lost. I make custom builds on the regular and holy fuck, I can tell you right now that sometimes shit will not play out like how you want em to. And that's just how it is
     
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  16. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

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    That suggestion wasn't entirely made by me, I simply gave my first impression. Now that I have more time to think about it, it really doesn't help much.

    I agree, relegating the CDMG won't help a lot, only make it somewhat similar.

    It would slightly lower the ATK of Swords by splitting the points between DEX and CRT, but it won't help Knuckles too much, probably.
    It would, give us an extra benefit of Crit rate, and allow to shift focus from CD equips to AGI and ASPD equipment, but that's it.

    Yes, Azin, I think our initial line of thinking was a bit incorrect. We don't have to nerf STR, but make other STATS a bit more useful.
     
  17. EldXy

    EldXy New Member

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    A Lack of Freedom, im on my first 100Hrs of playing the game, and what i notice is:

    • Too Many Restrictions on Skills and Weapon Usage.
      • ALL skills should be usable no matter what weapon you are using, the only thing that should be a deciding factor on whether you can use it is the Cons and Pros , not because you simply cant use it for it's only limited to certain weapons
    • Stats Distribution is a myth, you might as well add an auto statting bot that adds stats to a single attribute, for real i never seen anyone with more than 3 stats distributed, around each other.
      • One of the many things that ALL and EVERY MMO's i play have in common is that they tend to focus on Gloryfying big numbers and high damage, this once again, doesnt grant you any freedom since if you spread your stats out, you will be useless in "End-Game" because you will be useless as a "Jack of all trades" when someone can do what you are doing Much, Much, MUCH better than you.
    • Skill Points
      • This is just dumb, this in itself IS a limiting factor, why is this even in a game where your supposed to be "Class Less"? shouldnt skill points be gained through using something over and over again than using "LIMITED" resources such as Skill Points? Remove the "LEVEL" of a character and replace it with "PROFICIENCY" instead.
    • Leveling System
      • your level is a "Lie" thats only there to increase your ego when everyone can reach Lv.148+ from just doing Main Quest on EZ mode under 10Hours. thus making your level way less impressive than it should, like bruh your level 148? and what did you do to get it? Time, thats it. the Main Quest makes you SKIP the journey that your supposed to conquer and push through, and during the journey you will see the flaws of your character and change your character accordingly, you were supposed to make use of shops to negate certain bosses ailments, you were supposed to learn the mechanics needed to reach that high of a level, you were supposed to STRUGGLE to get to where you are now so that you can finally be able to say "Hey! Guys look! I Hit the 3 Level Digits!" but in this game, it means nothing, No Journey, You can cheese all the way through it.
    • Production Jobs
      • Again, using Skill Points? Really? not only that but your actual stats reflect how good you can make an item? im sorry, but statting to boost attribute and statting to increase a job proficiency should not be the same, as its in a entirely different category. one focuses on Combat, while the other is Production.
    Asking for a friend.
     
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  18. Azin.

    Azin. Brawler Enthusiast Elite Member

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    After some thinking i realize that u are indeed right. Every stat has 1 positive increament.
    Str cdmg
    Int mp
    Vit hp
    Dex acc
    Agi evasion.

    Maybe moving cdmg to crt is a bit overboard tbh. Im just alilbit salty on how imbalance other weap compared to knux..
    :salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt:
    Knuckles isnt that irelevant.. knux is good on everything other than being a dps knux which sux big time e.e.

    Im still hoping that assobimo would revamp knux stat distribution like how they managed to do it on dw before..
    :salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt::salt:
     
  19. The Brahmnic Boy

    The Brahmnic Boy Well-Known Member

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    While I agree Knux not having damage is a problem, that's not the issue here.
    • STR - CDMG, increases Base CDMG, which then is used by CD20% stat to increase Critical multiplier. Useful stat.
    • DEX - CSPD, useless for non Magic class except Chakra and Decoy, useless for Finale.
    • DEX - HIT, Useless. Period.
    • INT - MP gain, MDEF gain. Useless. Gain 30 MP at 300 INT.
    • VIT - HP gain, DEF gain. Useful for health. Useful for Some skills.
    • DEF and MDEF - They themselves are useless beyond 250, so INT loses some usefulness.
    • AGI - FLEE, ASPD. Flee kinda useless, no one cares about it. ASPD is kinda useful, faster AMPR, more MP reserve. But Auto attacks are not the meta. Motion speed gain abysmal for even supposed fast class.
    • TEC - MaxMP increase better than INT. Somewhat useless, since offers little advantage in actual battle.
    • LUK - Meteor from Familia only uses LUK passive. Useless.
    • CRT - Somewhat useful on THS.
    • MTL - Better survivability. Not that useful in damage dealing, but a nice stat if Toram was actually diverse meta.
    STR isn't OP, it's just that INT, AGI and DEX are useless.
    Imagine if Brawler had 3000+ Flee, and the Absolute Dodge stat was actually used as a counter to perfect aim attribute.
     
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  20. Kaisyl

    Kaisyl Elite Member Elite Member

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    Actually, by design, STR is OP. Consider the current aim of the game is to get the fastest clear times on bosses for drops. This means that you have to maximize your damage in any way possible by any means possible and STR does that by giving you a multiplicative benefit. This multiplicative benefit also happens to be the sole multiplicative benefit in the game. Critical Damage.

    INT, AGI, DEX nor VIT have such a multiplicative benefit. Only STR.

    Given the combination of requiring fast boss clears and only STR providing that benefit, it is the so called 'God Stat' of Toram. This is non-debatable.

    What needs to happen is either remove the damage multiplicative benefit from STR or give other stats damage multiplicative benefit.
     

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