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Best Pet to Tank and Build

Discussion in 'Pet/Taming' started by Kuro_Koro, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    First, i recommend Devoted because spikes don't hurt them at all. This is extremely important for your build because most bosses lately have been very anti-melee with spikes. And you chose to have a melee pet.

    Secondly, devoted also dodge many attacks so it will survive pretty well. You don't need matk or atk at all because this is a tank build, you only need survival and the ability to gain aggro.

    I still recommend MD though, because even if it is slower, it has the ability to do ranged attacks. When your pet dodge, if it is a knuckle, it will need to close in again. All of that running back and forth means it will not gain any aggro. A MD pet can dodge and then attack right away so it always maintain the aggro. I think it's more efficient that way.

    And to get 3 skills of your desire is almost impossible unless you have the time to grind that many pets.. Think about it this way. The first pet will get lv10 rage attack, the second pet will get lv10 hp absorb. Then you fuse them and get a new pet with both. Now that new pet needs to be lucky enough to get HP gain (only 25% chance first try, and even less the next tries). If you don't get that skill, you will have to make a new pet with either HP absorb lv10 or Rage attack lv10 again to gamble again for the new pet. It goes on until you get the pet with all 3 skills . it may takes many pets and each of them will need a lot of time for grinding level and skill level.

    Now here is some information for your reference:
    - It takes 1 week to get a perro to lv170+ if you are very active.
    - it takes 20 hours continuosly grinding to level a lv5 base skill to lv10. And maybe 40hours from lv4 base to lv10. It almost double the time for every one level lower that you start with.

    If you decide to do it anyway, i will look forward to your results.. In the next 2 years!
     
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  2. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    I see what you're saying about devoted, but don't steady pets dodge spikes as well? I think steady pets dodge way more aoe than devoted pets do.

    About the problem with the lack of ranged attacks, I could just turn my pet's magic auto attack on. Regardless if it's knuckles, it can do ranged attacks but the problem is that it's really slow and I think having MD as its weapon wouldn't change that. It's usually in the middle of an attack animation when it gets hit. I heard that bow/bowgun pets have a ranged physical auto attack that would be faster than a ranged magic auto attack. Should I focus on changing my pet's weapon to MD or Bow/Bowgun?

    Rage Attack can be learned as the first 100% guaranteed skill after the pet is already fused. I also already have a Knuckle/Genius/Agile pet with HP Gain and a Knuckle/Genius/Sturdy pet with HP Absorb at lvl 10. All I'd have to do is fuse them together while selecting "sturdy" (if I end up choosing sturdy) as the guaranteed nature, then teach it rage attack. I appreciate the concern that it'd take me 2 years though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  3. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    Oh i forgot that you can also do it that way, so not many pet generations then. Good to know!

    Bow/bowgun can miss so i wouldn't recommend it. Md is faster with the default auto attack because it's already magical. I would recommend md over knuckle any day.

    I am not talking about dodging spikes, i am talking about the ability to stay inside spikes and not lose any hp. I would always prefer my tank pet to not dodge most attacks, since dodging mean it will run around instead of attacking. I would rather it can take hits head on and survive, then generate back the lost hp by HP absorb or pet heal. That's why phy/mag resist 30% is important
     
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  4. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the input. This is giving me a lot to think about.

    I haven't had the chance to test out a steady pet yet. Isn't it also immune to spikes? The pet nature table just lists both steady and devoted as being immune to spikes.

    Are you sure that a pet would do a magic attack faster just because it's MD rather than knuckles? I'm pretty sure its attack speed during the attack animation is dependent on the species and its damage rate, while the delay between attacks is determined by ASPD. I haven't played around with an MD pet yet though so maybe its auto is faster.

    Tanking hits instead of dodging them before healing does sound good. Though aren't there attacks from bosses that do absurd damage and aren't meant to be tanked? I'm talking about the ones that do consistent damage in the hundreds or thousands before whipping out an attack with damage above 10k. I'm still new to the game though so I'm not sure. The amount of damage your pet has to tank just seems way too big compared to the small amount of HP it can get back from HP Absorb when it only has auto and rage attack.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  5. Misspeld

    Misspeld Well-Known Member

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    How do you measure your pet's max mp? It doesn't show on Stat info.
    Thanks.
     
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  6. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    My md pet is quite fast, i have yet to try a knuckle pet that is configured to be a ranged magic attacker since it sounds unnatural for me. My md auto attack is not much slower than my bow pets with high dex and agi.

    For spikes, i was meant to compare it with the sturdy pet that offers abit more matk and atk in exchange for less resist.

    About the big attacks, it's hard to tell really. Because a steady pet dodges way too much, maybe it has higher survival rate for itself, but not for the pet owner when it can't keep the aggro as good as a devoted. So far the only aoe that can insta kill a pet come from event bosses, not something you would do with a pet anyway. Venena has a laser that maybe able to kill a 30k hp pet, but still it's not like your pet will tank venena while you are attacking the pillar. And if you are a tank at venena then you wouldn't need a tank pet anyway. I don't have a lv10hp absorb pet to test out if the healing is significant or not. Maybe i will have to grind my pet more to get that :(

    Maybe you can build both and tell us in the end which pet is more practical. I still believe it's better to not dodge and get aggro rather than dodging too much and fail to get aggro.

    If you are a finale or a cf user, you don't want the boss to chase your pet around making it harder to aim, and you also don't want it to chase you instead..
     
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  7. Morningwood

    Morningwood Well-Known Member

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    The build looks well-thought-out to me. Is your main concern pet survival, or is it aggro generation? I don't have as much experience with STEADY as with SLY pets, but my SLY pets do well if they have decent MaxHP, and Alzarith's Pet Nature Chart makes it look like STEADY is an upgraded SLY as far as avoiding AOE is concerned.

    Maybe it is just me, but I have a lot of pets with Rage Attack, and they go dormant for a count of about 6 after using it (same with Stealth Attack). I mention this because you are considering AGI over INT; I'd tend to favor INT. (I have dim memories of pets with low level Rage Attack grabbing a monster's attention faster than pets with a higher level Rage Attack but lower (M)ATK... could be due to misses I guess, but it makes me wonder how much if any ATK factors into the aggro that is generated, and to be honest I didn't know about DEVOTED back then and would not have been on the lookout for it as a possible influence.) I wish I knew more, but I don't. You can get 10 Rage Attacks off of a full MP pool, over about a minute. I think that if I was going to use a DEVOTED pet, I would think twice about using Rage Attack (assuming that I'm not hallucinating the dormancy between attacks) until I had evidence that the Rage Attack aggro beats normal attack aggro.

    I sincerely hope that you are not as confused as I apparently am :)
     
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  8. Lenwok

    Lenwok Elite Member Elite Member

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    I would vote MD + steady. MD allows for 'faster' auto (due to more freedom of range) than a magic auto attack. And steady because it can dodge the most AOEs. I also think there's less sense in HP Gain skill for a tank pet. If you check on youtube for SugarCat, her159 (fused) tank pet already has 35k hp, without HP gain skill. That seems more than enough already, and i feel absorb MP might be a better bet so the pet can be more self sufficient
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  9. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    I have two questions concerning this. Yes, I am also confused xD

    Considering that I'm running Knuckles with AGI, how high does its FLEE stat have to be to be hit by boss aoe's and have them miss? Also, does a devoted pet get +300 aggro once at the beginning of battle, or does each attack generate an additional +300 aggro? Maybe a devoted pet with high AGI could end up dodging a lot of aoe's not depicted in the table without having to run away, so then it can keep attacking and generate aggro. It'd survive and be able to keep aggro. I could also decide on not getting Rage Attack to rely on aggro from auto and go for Magic Shot instead for more damage / HP healed.

    Either that or I can run a Steady Pet and just turn on its auto magic attack. It would run around a lot to dodge but still be able to attack from far away. The HP that it'd lose from being attacked during its animation wouldn't matter too much since it's tanky and can heal it back.

    Could I have more details on the build of SugarCat's pet to get it to 35k HP?
     
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  10. Lenwok

    Lenwok Elite Member Elite Member

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    Generally I don't think high flee can be really relied on as the primary form of defense. I get the feeling it doesn't matter at all when facing NM/ULT bosses anyway AND you can't dodge magic attacks so bear that in mind too. That being said, player chars are limited by 255 stat cap. It 'might' work better with a pet rocking 600+ AGI, so its still worth exploring and you can be the main pioneer of it! :D

    As for SugarCat's pet, check her playlist:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcrVmepofA1PBhqOmO_wauGbKqIlr7REE
     
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  11. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, it sounds like I shouldn't put any points in AGI at all and pour all of my pet's potential in INT and VIT. Is that correct?

    Depending on if Devoted pets generate +300 aggro only once or +300 aggro per attack, I might go with a devoted pet that has Magic Shot instead of Rage Attack. Do we know which one it is?
     
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  12. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    huh? i thought it's 300% more aggro, not +300 aggro. So whatever attack your pet use will get 3 times more aggro than normal. If it was +300 aggro for normal attack then it's too OP.
     
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  13. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, I see. That makes sense. How much aggro does an auto attack typically generate? How much does rage attack usually generate?
     
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  14. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    It is unconfirmed but here is how some people think Aggro works:
    - normal attack gives 10 aggro points per hit. If it is a miss, then no aggro generated.
    - Skill gives 1 aggro per 1 mp. So Rage Attack generates 100 aggro + additional aggro. This additional aggro if it is similar to Knight's Rage Sword or Binding Strike then it will be 50 or 100 aggro + 10*skill level. We really have no idea what are the actual numbers, so I just use Knight Skills as reference.

    Now we can do a little calculation here.
    At the beginning of the battle, your pet does x10 lvl10 Rage Attacks, which translate to 100*10 + additional aggro * 10. If additional aggro is similar to Rage Sword then the total Aggro points = 1000 + 1500 = 2500.

    Suppose, your finale mage doesn't use Sneak, nor has any -aggro equipment. And you use a combo of Impact + Finale (excluding the combo ender). You will generate a total of 200 + 300 (for casting finale) + 1600 (finale mp aggro points) = 2100 aggro. And this happens typically within 4 seconds (instant impact + 3s casting for finale). If you have 2000mp, then you will do this twice in a row. So within a short amount of time, you ditches out 4200 aggro. And if you have resonance + sub md, you triple that amount to 6300 aggro. Typically this can happen in under 1 minute.

    Now, if you Steady pet can't cast x10 rage attack right away at the beginning of the battle, it will likely not generate enough aggro points to cover your finale spamming at all. But if it's a Devoted, it will generate (theoretically) 7500 aggro for 10 Rage Attacks, which is more than enough to cover all those finales.

    That's just in the best case scenario. In an actual bloody fight, the pet will run around dodging instead of doing rage attack, and then even if 10 rage attacks are successfully performed, it will have to wait a bit for the mp to generate back before it can cast again. So without Sneak Attack, your mage will out aggro your dodgy pets within 1 minute. Only a Devoted pet can hold that much aggro in a short time.

    Now, if you use sneak, then your aggro will be reduced to 400 only, which is more manageable for any pet, but think about if you have friends joining your party, and they are high mp skill users, then 2500 aggro from a Steady pet may not hold long before the boss starts chasing your friends.

    So in conclusion, a 300% aggro increase from a devoted pet is what makes a Tank pet. Steady pets should be Damage Dealer pets instead.
     
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  15. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. This is very helpful.

    So what I'm getting from this is that I should build a Knuckle (or possibly MD) / Genius / Devoted pet with HP Absorb, Rage Attack, and HP Gain (or possibly Magic Lance) and a build focused on VIT and INT?

    Is HP Gain better in this case or is Magic Lance better?
     
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  16. TokiXKiru

    TokiXKiru Well-Known Member

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    For me, HP Gain is better :)
     
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  17. KearaBeear

    KearaBeear Well-Known Member

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    Magic Lance can inflict Stop on Boss, which is also quite useful. At lvl 10, it would be a gold skill ^^/
     
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  18. _nobody_

    _nobody_ Well-Known Member

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    I would go with more hp because your pet needs to save mp for Rage Attack anyway. One main active skills and two passive seems efficient to me. But if you do 12-14 generations of Genious pets with a lucky average of 1.5 affinity per 3 stat points then you may get a 400 VIT potential pet, which should give it plenty of HP, and if then I would recommend MP absorb for skill spamming. But that takes a long long time, and by the time you are done with it, a new pet with new level cap will be better than yours :(.
     
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  19. Morningwood

    Morningwood Well-Known Member

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    There are at least two play-style considerations that should be taken into account. (1) do you intend to use the Pet HP Heal and Pet MP Charge skills?, and (2) Do you expect (want) the pet to out-aggro your character and other party members?

    If you hide most or all of your own aggro (-100% aggro staff, or Sneak Attack) and solo (or don't care about other party members) then you can build your pet with spam-able skills (Encourage, Clear Mind, Magic Shot, Heavy Blow, etc). Charge the pet's MP before the battle and it will quickly cast these until it runs out of MP. My go-to pets are of the form [Absorb MP 10][Encourage 10](Clear Mind ?) SLY (shifting to STEADY); I get away with these because I am using Bloom of Peace staff, with a def merc as backup in case the pet croaks. For semi-dps I am working on pets of the form [Absorb HP 10][Absorb MP 10](Magic Shot ?) but I don't have any of this form that I would brag about and I dump MP into them (their prototypes actually) via the MP charge skill.

    The other extreme (and one of our most cherished dreams) would be a robust, autonomous aggro-generating pet that required little or no attention. I am still waiting for the dust to settle on what can be expected from a DEVOTED pet (I had it in my head that normal attacks generated about 300 aggro, which I think I read somewhere, but where? IDK). To compensate for the fact that DEVOTED don't avoid many AOEs, it would need decent Max HP, which means the higher level the pet the better as well as stat points (and maybe potential disciplining) in VIT. A level 100 pet will have 6.7k HP with 200 VIT, and 10.0k HP with 300 VIT.

    Oops... I'm gonna wander off into a tangent. Suppose, just suppose, that one wants to use VIT as the secondary stat (I favor this myself) for a fused pet. When the pet's growth limit is lowish, you can dump all of your fusion-bonus stat points and the earned stat points (from leveling) into the main stat until growth limit is reached or until that stat becomes saturated (reaches 255) and then turn to VIT. If you have a fused pet with a very high growth limit, you can saturate the main stat, then the VIT stat, and remaining stat points would have to be assigned to a third stat. In the lowish to mediumish growth limit range, you have the option to maximize MaxHP of the pet by reserving stat points to be assigned to VIT such that the VIT stat becomes 255 at the same time as the growth limit is reached. With 255 VIT at maturity, a lv100 pet would have ~8.5k HP, a lv120 pet ~10k HP, and the progression is regular for growth limits above those.

    Sorry about that. Anyways, most of my pet breeding work is trying to figure out what I can squeeze out of a pet of the form [Absorb HP 10][Absorb MP 10](XXX). If it turns out that DEVOTED normal attack aggro stacks up fast, I would consider using a fast magic-auto pet for AMPR. The question then would be: what would be a good XXX skill that is efficient (MP/damage ratio low) that would return HP via the Absorb HP skill. Maybe that skill would turn out to be Rage Attack. I will be honest here... I have not made much progress in determining how much MP the Absorb MP skill returns.

    All that being said, I don't yet have a high HP DEVOTED pet that I would prefer over my fleet of SLY pets (perhaps STEADY as time goes on). But that is because I get by with a low aggro pet, and everything is fine as long as I am not the last party member in an upright position.
     
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  20. Queenie Leung

    Queenie Leung Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Speaking of that, I can't find any information on bonus stat points from fusing.

    1) What determines how many bonus stat points that the resulting pet has from fusing two other pets?

    2) Suppose the second generation pet has x number of stat points. Do these carry over to the next generation when I fuse this pet? Would bonus stat points continue to increase as you go down generations?

    3) I heard that the limit for stat points on any given stat for a pet is 255. However, I have seen builds where pets have more than 255 points. How is this achieved? I assume that once it reaches 255, you can't manually allocate stat points to it anymore but that stat points from leveling up would continue adding to it. Is this wrong?
     
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