couple of questions from a noobs

Please consider that all these question are for knuckle build character, thanks:

Are dagger passive skills still considered under powered? Amazing throw, hidden arm, intense knife & mail breaker.

What is the best ASPD increasing skills:
Quick Aura (10 skill points)
Berserk (10 skill points since I will be getting the War Cry skill)
God Speed (20 skill points)
Rampage (25 skill points & lock me for knuckle/sword build)
& I don't consider Godspeed Wield since it's too hard to maintain & the drawback is huge (as told by my guild mates).

Is adding ASPD past 1000 still worth it? Do I really need to aim for that motion speed increased? Because from the looks of it the knuckles are much more slow compare to swords.

Do the chakra skill can rival the quick draw skill?
Chakra: +50mp + 15 ampr for a duration. Auto attack. (correct me if I'm wrong)
Quick Draw: 20% chance to recover 100mp per skill used.

I just re-post my post here from the other website cause I think that I'll get my answers here.

 

-Yes dagger skills underpowered
-I personally wouldnt use any of these to increase aspd (aim for wandering wheel xtal instead if you really wanted to boost it)
-Pushing aspd as high as you can above 1000 wouldn't be recommended, id focus on increasing your damage output instead
-Chakra wouldnt really benefit yourself because you are spending 2mp to just get 1mp back. And you may not have a high cspd value to make the charge time fast enough to use (viably) in any combo. Quickdraw is definitely better (and gives you access to decoy shot too)

 

Those dagger skills is just like another extension for your normal attacks (kinda literally), it will be strong if you have enough atk and cdmg but it's true that there are other better options to use your sp compared to these skills.

Quick aura is good, berserk is not (the -50% stability is painful for non sword users), God speed? from DW skill tree? it doesn't really give aspd unless you're talking about agi. You can't use rampage for knux. Yes, Gspwield is dangerous but it's really good but if used correctly, I'm sure you wouldn't use it on an anti melee boss, a boss that uses field aoe or bosses that targets everyone. There's one thing too, you're a knuckle, if you can combine and master it's cc skills along with gspwield then you wouldn't suffer from it's drawbacks.

For me yes, plus as a knux it's easy to go past 1000 aspd. Being faster has it's perks such as executing combos faster and giving you more windows to do more stuff like evading incoming attacks. Having faster motion speed also helps on the party proration and your own ampr too.

Can't say really, it depends. Chakra is good if you can use it properly, Quickdraw has a 3 * skill lvl % chance to recover 100mp every time mp is used (so even if you use skills, as long it doesn't consume mp it won't proc.)

 

depends on who you are asking

only works on dagger skills, but much more effective than "whack" and those other damage enhancing skills that everyone likes so much.
and this skill calculates after Double Stab, so with both you can do 4 evasion attacks. (which get boosted by unsheathe stats)

people consider it too costly for little effect since they don't like to use auto-attacks at all, relying just on skill spam and mp recharge.
it is indeed costly on skill points, but also much more reliable than additional melee/magic. knuckles have low physical attack, so they rely on speed to get as many hits as possible. with those 3 skills and Aggravate you can get 2 or 3 hits on every attack.
the problem of low attack power can be countered with Strong Chase Attack, which adds a chance to inflict Armor Break with your auto-attacks.

it's the most effective one, but is paid with HP.

don't know this skill, but if you are getting War Cry anyway, then the cost is the same as Quick Aura, so it sounds like a reasonable choice.

works, but costs more skills points. if you plan to get the dagger passives, better use Quick Aura since it's cheaper.

must have a sword as main weapon, this will cancel out all passive knuckle skills and dagger skills as well. also it does NOT increase your aspd!

every 180 aspd past 1000 adds 1% motion speed. this is most noticeable on slow skills like Bash or Shell Break.
knuckles are not slower than swords, but some swords skills have speed boosters. Astute is always at max. motion speed and Trigger Slash will put the next skill used to max. motion speed.

Chakra does not only affect yourself, but your party members too.
Quick Draw only triggers if you actually use mp to activate a skill. when the mp cost is reduced to 0 with combo tags, Quick Draw will not activate.
so Quick Draw will never recover more mp than used, it will just make your mp last a little longer.
Chakra can actually give you more mp than you had before using it. and since it's on the martial skill tree, the cost in skill points is lower than the cost for Quick Draw.

that's the theory =(^.^)=
for practical experience from a master martial artist, ask the Blue Bull

kuchiyose no jutsu!
*poof*
@RyeUshio

 

I know a few people have already replied here, but I figured I might as well give my perspective.

The dagger passives are mostly underpowered considering that it takes a whole 30 skill points to level them up, so you should get more important skills like ATK UP if you haven't already first. The active dagger skills can be nice though, especially spike dart. I wouldn't bother with gatling knife though since triple kick is a lot quicker (and I think it does more damage too, but I may have calculated wrong).

Quick aura is a great skill for ASPD.
Berserk is normally not a good idea for non-sword builds because of the stability decrease, but I have done a bit of testing, and the ASPD increase, auto attack damage boost, and critical rate boost can compensate for a lot of the stability loss for builds that have a lot of ASPD and may be lacking critical rate (it can also be nice for bosses with crit resist). Even considering all of this, it still decreases your DPS by just a small amount and is mostly for utility and tanking (tanking with berserk may sound counter-intuitive due to the DEF&MDEF decrease, but the skill generates a lot of aggro and the ASPD boost can help you avoid red & blue area attacks quicker). It's typically best to use war cry for full DPS, but they can mesh well if you don't mind having long combos.
Godspeed is a decent skill for brawlers, but because of its cost it should be saved for later.
Rampage is nice for sword-fu builds, but if you're making a pure brawler it's completely useless.

Every 180 ASPD you gain after 1000 or 1100 (the number is debated) increases the motion speed of your attacks and some self-buffer skills by 1%. It may sound insignificant, but since the cap is 50% (10000 or 10100 ASPD), that would mean you could attack twice as fast, essentially doubling your DPS and also making it easier to avoid red & blue area attacks. ATK is still a better stat for DPS though, so equip a Don Yeti crysta if you want.

Chakra can be a good skill since it recovers 100mp with knuckles, gives you 15 AMPR and also gives you the resistance buff (which in itself is great for defense and team support), but it has the issue of having a charge time of 3 seconds. Normally it' only a good skill if you have a lot of CSPD, but you could make a combo like: smash> bash (save)> chakra (swift) to make it much safer to use. Quick draw is a decent skill, but I don't prefer to use it and I honestly don't understand why people regard it so highly when you look at all of the other skills that can be used for MP recovery. My suggestion would be to get aggravate to level 10, get an eerie crystal or tapir crysta, and then make sure you include shell break in most of your combos (or at least your main combo). Obviously, requiring shell break in your combos can be limiting, so you could go ahead and get QD if you want to.

 

Dude, let me enjoy my hiatus. I get startled everytime you summon me @Red_Fox.

Most new boss now with high defense are easily penetrated by those dagger passives.

Best aspd skill for me, would be something that would not hurt me with those debuff/nega.

In the world of martial arts, speed decide the victor. That may be the case, but since we’re not strong enough to one shot those bosses, then aspd is not everything. You may want to consider balancing your speed, damage and defense.

Mp recovery wise, chakra can rival quick draw. Though, I would only use chakra if I have dex as 2nd stat or high cspd, coz if not then you’re like a sitting duck while casting this.

^_^

 

wow this is a lot of info. thanks guys.

 

Follow up question: If I'm using twin eagle (100% crit rate) is it worth to build my character full str for that crit damage & just aim for an average aspd? Or full agi is still the best choice?

 

You get +2 atk for every point in AGI. You get +0 atk for every point in STR.
If you don't cap AGI first, then you are losing out on 510 atk power, until you reach the 170 cap, at which point you only have +384 atk (from 2nd stat full AGI).
High crit damage may not be worth much if you have low attack vs enemy with high defense. So this is probably not recommended, but then again, you could prove me wrong...

 

Also, there's this nice calculator that could help with deciding your stat distributions...

 

So having max agi adds 510 atk while having max str adds 51% crit dmg. Which is better? With simple computation, having a 100% crit rate & a sample atk of 2k:
1. MAX AGI: (2000 + 510) * 1.5 crit dmg = 3765
2 MAX STR: 2000*2.01 crit dmg = 4020 a difference of 255 atk?
I know there is a lot more things that needed to be considered here so please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

where did you get the 2000?
a skills potential damage is calculated from the skill constant + your atk stat multiplied by the skill multiplier. then the potential damage is reduced according to the monster's def and resistance, which makes the "final" damage.
this final damage is then multiplied by your crit damage factor.

so the 510 extra atk would be multiplied when using a skill.
let's say you use a 1mp skill with a constant of 100 and a multiplier of 1.5.
your basic atk is also 100.

with full agi you would have 610atk (more if you have martial mastery).
then the skill will have a potential damage of 100 + 610*1.5 = 1015.
assuming the monster has 0 def and no resistance, a critical hit (factor 1.5) will deal 1507 damage.

now the same with full str instead of agi.
the potential damage would be 100 + 100*1.5 = 250.
a critical hit (factor 2.1) will then deal 525 damage.
that's like a third of what you can do with agi.
and the monster still has no def or resistance. if we consider those as well, the potential damage will decrease, making the high critical damagw factor less effective. in the worst case your damage will be 1, which will increase to 2 on a critical hit.

 

wow again thanks for the detailed explanations, I really appreciate this. The 2000 is just an assumption of your atk without the agi & str. But then again it was overruled by your more detailed calculation so we can just treat it as trash.

 

i know that I'm relying on you guys too much but how about the secondary stats? With 100% crit rate is dex still useful compared to str that can boost crit dmg?

 

critical hits cannot miss but if the accuracy is low, so that it would have missed, it becomes a grazed hit.
grazed hits have their stability cut in half, so if you normally would do 80-100% damage you will now deal 40-100% damage.
stability is random, so it may or may not affect you much, but it's possible to have all your damage cut in half.

increased critical damage can compensate this in some cases, but it's still inconsistent.
increasing accuracy may not boost your damage as much as increasing critical damage, but it is more reliable.