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Physical pierce and crit dmg

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by TheLoneLane, Jan 13, 2023.

  1. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    If I have 100% Physical Pierce, does my crit dmg matter? See, I read somewhere that it doesn't, but I can't find the page again and my random party is making me feel dumb
     
  2. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    critical damage multiplies your final damage output. critical hits deal 50+% more damage regardless of the target's defence.

    the relative effectiveness of physical pierce depends on how much defense the target has.
    if the defense is higher than your attack, you will deal minimal damage and pierce becomes essential.

    pierce is an alternative attack stat that scales with the target's stat instead of your own. but if your attack is significantly higher than the target's defense damage multipliers are much more effective.
    you will need both.
     
  3. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    Let me correct myself.
     
  4. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    So if I try to get decent pierce with decent atk, but high crit and crit dmg, then I'd be golden and on my way?


    Would it be a bad idea to start at 100% p.pierce and work my way back? Play around with it, and change stuff. Swap out p.pierce for atk where i see fit?

    Like say my armor does 15%pierce, but no atk buff. Would it be more beneficial to go to armor that decrease that physical pierce to now 7%, but increases my atk, even tho I'd go from 100%p.pierce to 92%?
     
  5. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    Hold up I'm sorry. Each time I type a reply, i realize i didn't finish reading. I just now read the whole thing.

    But my question still stands;
    Is a loss of 8% p.pierce worth it for higher atk buff? Or should I attempt to stay as close to 100% as possible
     
  6. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    atk% scales with your base atk, atk+ adds to your total atk
    p.pierce scales with the target's def stat

    def directly reduces your atk. you can counter this by raising your atk further or decreasing the target's def. which one is more effective depends on the situation.
    100% pierce is good if the target has close to, equal or greater def than your atk. the opposite applies when the target has little to no def.
    since you likely can't afford to have multiple sets with different values to stack up the optimal stats for each individual battle, it is recommended to balance different stats. (you can however hold multiple add gears/rings/daggers/shields/arrows for different occasions, just like holding different elemental weapons)

    monopolizing one stat is considered bad because even without soft caps all stats are affected by diminishing returns.
    let's use an example to make it more clear:

    assume you have 400 atk and 20% physical pierce.
    now you have to decide between getting 5% more atk or 5% more p.pierce.
    5% atk would raise your atk by 20. for p.pierce it depends on the target's stats.

    case 1: 200 def -> with 5% atk your atk would be 260. with 5% p.pierce your atk would be 250.
    case 2: 300 def -> with 5% atk your atk would be 180. with 5% p.pierce your atk would be 175.
    case 3: 400 def -> with 5% atk your atk would be 100. with 5% p.pierce your atk would be 100
    case 4: 500 def -> with 5% atk your atk would be 20. with 5% p.pierce your atk would be 25.

    as you can see, p.pierce becomes stronger than atk% when the target's def is higher than your base atk.
    likewise there is a huge difference between some or no p.pierce but little difference between 20 and 25 (same for 100 and 92).
    without p.pierce your atk would be 0 in case 3 and 4, and your attacks would deal only 1 damage unless your atk is raised by skill constants.
    those numbers are not representative, as they only factor base atk, the number on your stat screen is your total atk. atk% raises base atk, so if your stat screen shows 400 atk, your base atk is lower and 5% atk will correspondingly add less than 20 points. even more so the more atk modifiers you stack.

    in conclusion, ignoring p.pierce to get every possible atk% boost will make no difference against enemies whose def is above your atk, and trading in atk stats for reaching 100% p.pierce will make your damage fall behind against enemies who don't have exceptionally high def.

    having both can grant you average damage in either situation. and once you accomplished that, the real power boosters are damage modifiers such as critical damage, short/long range damage and element damage.
     
  7. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    But most of my stuff increases both pierce and atk, or do you mean boosts other that atk%
     
  8. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    if you have both in one item then use it. choosing another item with only one stat won't make it better unless the value is greater than the sum of both on the other item.

    aside from atk% there are also flat atk increases, either directly or stat-based, but they don't make a difference for that matter.
     
  9. TheLoneLane

    TheLoneLane Active Member

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    Question. With p.pierce, it scales with the mobs defence. So, how high is the Boss colon miniboss' defence? Even with 100% p.pierce I do little to no dmg
     
  10. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    in addition to defense monsters can also have resistance. that one cannot be reduced.
     
  11. Katzblazer

    Katzblazer Well-Known Member

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    @Red_Fox Do you have a list of Def/Mdef for bosses in ultimate mode?
    particularly Finstern, Arachdemon...Ferzen, all if possible.
     
  12. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    i don't collect that type of data. but sometimes you can find those on youtube.
     

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