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The Great 'Save Combo Tag', a short explanation

Discussion in 'Toram Online Game Guides' started by NineArts, Jan 5, 2016.

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  1. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    version: January 19, 2016

    after testing last night, here are the results.

    BUT, first thing's first, credits goes to @Precaria and @Saphos , without them, this information will not exist :p

    now, let's start our short explanation:

    1. 1st Save will be your MP Balance, it starts at -80% damage penalty, succeeding Saves will increase this penalty and their starting penalty is -100% damage.

    2. each non save combo reduces penalty by 20%, the MP Balance reduction from 1st Save will be calculated in this order: reduction from previous Impact skill effect ~> consecutive combo tag. the mp balance will carry over to the next skill if it's not used.

    3. consecutive penalty is position based, 2nd skill: -10%, 3rd skill: -20%.. so keep that in mind when building your combos with consecutive

    4. succeeding Saves will not add to your MP Balance, Save MP Balance is not stackable, only damage reduction penalty stacks.

    5. in order to utilize Save, it needs to be on the 2nd skill on your combo and is enough to use it on a 5th or 6th combo with smite, there should be a skill after the smited skill to carry the penalty of double mp. the skills between the 2nd and 5th/6th skill needs to be in consecutive combo so that your MP balance will not be used (you are saving it for your smited skill)

    6. damage penalties has a cap (not yet determined) over the Damage Drop Off minimum limit of 50%, your damage will never be zero.

    7. skills that used Save combo tag will remove it's breaker skill value (the one calculated on the ranks).​

    so example on Archer (100MP needed and, you will need to have 10 Combo Points, more information here: [link]):

    Moeba Shot ~> Smoke Dust (save) ~> Bullseye (cons) ~> Paralysis Shot (cons) ~> Impact ~> Snipe (smite) ~> Lance

    1. starting MP: 100
    2. bank 500 MP as your balance, no mp needed, -80% damage from Save
    3. reduced MP: 0 (consecutive), -60% damage from Save, -20% damage from Consecutive
    4. reduced MP: 0 (consecutive), -40% damage from Save, -30% damage from Consecutive
    5. consume 200 MP from your balance, -20% damage from Save, balance remaining: 300MP
    6. half MP cost 400MP reduced to 200MP (if value is 150, it is rounded up to 200), consume 200 MP from your balance, no more damage penalties from Save (0%).
    7. needed 300 MP, not enough MP. skill will not execute.​

    points of interest:

    1. because Snipe gives ridiculous damage, drop off penalty till 50% will prove insignificant, smite gives +50% damage, so it will feel like you are sniping at normal damage. :cool:

    2. furthermore, because you are spamming snipes like there is no tomorrow. pair that with Blue Gelatin item (boost mp regen), high ampr gear stacking (eerie+silver roar) and Quick Draw (passive skill, 30% chance at Lv.10 to gain 100MP per skill in a combo). if all else fails, you just need Two Auto Attacks to generate 1MP bar (required ASPD: 1057+, easily achieved with Feather Cape, Mega Speed Potions, don't forget 28-30 total ampr including gears, or i may be wrong here and lower ampr is enough) and you are Sniping Again. :eek:

    3. additional bonus would be activating Blind from Smoke Dust (reduce target's hit), Paralysis from Paralysis Shot (reduce target's ASPD) or Tumble from Impact (your main breaking skill and mob clearing). :oops:

    4. this is a 17 MP bar equivalent (last skill will not hit) but only using 1 MP bar, we have a rule that Attacker Rank needs to have the highest accumulated damage, Breaker Rank needs to have most used breaking skills and auto attacks, and Tank Rank depends on the stacked total aggro (generated by skills and gears). :confused:
    thanks to @BK. for the correction of Breaker and Tank Ranks, i did a quick ninja edit :p

    lets face it, the future belongs to Archers (for now, because there are still future updates). as always, life is short have an affair. :D

    lastly, boost your damage further using Elements from this topic: [link] and complete your Emblems: [link]

    if only i can name this kind of build (the Archer example), i'll name it "Hari ng Bakulaw" build LOL

    If you liked this guide or helped you in any way, press the Like button, thanks much! :p

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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
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  2. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Just passing through and i noticed the things needed to achieve the roles are wrong except attacker. Breaker is gained by breaking skills and auto attacks. Sometimes my tank gets 1st breaker rank just by auto attacking. And tank rank isnt based on how many mp bars are used. Every skill has its own agro %. And agro % gear adds to the skills agro base% if the amount of mp bars were the case a tank who used provoke once would lose to a mage who used wall impact storm. If the skill has multiple hits like storm or wall it continues to add agro% over time
     
  3. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    ok, got it, adding information~
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  4. EVILOTTO

    EVILOTTO Well-Known Member

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    First, thanks and appreciate the effort.

    Just to play devil's advocate (this is not an attempt to be a snarky ass or belittle a project)- "For all the work, is it any faster than Impact>Snipe(Sm)>MP Charge?" You've created as much aggro by Smoke Dust, and your still hoping to complete four more skills uninterrupted for the pay off. Loving the theory, the practice is leaving a sour after taste.

    That said, I hate MP Charge and have great affection for 100MP combos. Thanks again.
     
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  5. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    combo was an example, anyways

    Bullseye = quick cast
    Paralysis Shot = instant cast
    Impact = instant cast, chance to tumble, 4 seconds duration
    Snipe = cast around 2 seconds less?

    (would appreciate if someone corrected the casting duration/speed, already deleted my archer long time ago so these are based from my memory)

    as for aggro, i don't see it as a means to interrupt the following skills after Smoke Dust from the combo as long as you know when to use it, example, try to use it after evading a red AOE area, after they are done casting their AOE, you already finished your combo. or, if you are in a party with a capable tank, aggro will never transfer to you. lastly, add the fact that Impact has a chance to Tumble, just enough time for you to cast Snipe.

    Impact ~> Snipe (Smite) ~> MP Charge
    this will cost 400mp.. MP Charge costs zero mp, so penalties will not take any MP,
    previously that was one of the reasons i asked a few days ago if it's possible to insta-cast MP Charge.

    lastly, as additional info about removing Smite penalty, you can use Knife Throw Lv.10, it costs zero MP.

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  6. Precaria

    Precaria Precariø ♂ Retired IG Super Likable Elite Member Wiki Contributor

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    Easy to read and useful for anyone who wants to know how the Save effect works.
    *Linked to one of my threads.
     
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  7. Sоsо

    Sоsо Active Member

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    Wealth of information here. I didn't know there was a damage penalty :rolleyes:

    I agree with your comment about archers. I have only played as a Mage but always been positively vocal about snipers because of their high damage output. I do believe snipers- with a good build and use of combos- currently rule toram as a whole. The best party I was ever in was with snipes.
     
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  8. Saphos

    Saphos Old Sword Nerd Elite Member

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    This came to mind:

    Mobea > Sneak (Save) > Impact (Consec) > Snipe (Smite) > Bullseye (Consec)

    I don't know how well Sneak works though ^^
     
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  9. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the additional info/correction ;)

    haven't tested Sneak, it's best if it's no cast or instant cast, however the position of Smite will have reduced damage due to Save
    -80% beginning Save, at Snipe position it's -40%, add the +50% damage increase from smite, you will only get 110% (starting damage: 100%, add +50%, reduce -40%), then if you are spamming this combo, you will also have to add in mind Damage Drop Off, your damage potential will be reduced to 50%

    in addition, maybe inserting Sneak after a Smoke Dust (Save) can help in reducing aggro accumulation? we need someone to test this :p

    if mages can benefit on this setup, i recall Sanctuary can be inserted in a combo (it was temporarily removed from the game due to max hp to damage reduction bug), and adding in Sneak on their combo reducing their aggro (will also help them secure their position in Support Rank);

    Magic Arrow ~> Sanctuary (Save) ~> Sneak (cons) ~> Lance (cons) ~> Impact ~> Magic Storm (smite) ~> MP Charge

    also, i would like to add, consecutive has damage penalty that stacks, -10% damage penalty per stack, damage penalty adds to Save.

    sample test case: using 100MP or 1 MP bar
    Sonic Wave ~> Smash (cons) ~> Triple Kick (save) ~> Bash (cons) ~> Earth Bind (smite) ~> MP Charge (swift)

    output:
    Combo 1
    You dealt # damage with Sonic Wave!!

    Combo 2 Consecutive!!
    MP Used: 1 Damage -10%
    You dealt # damage with Smash!!

    Combo 3 Save!!
    Saves 3 MP. Damage: -80% <~ 1st Save is -80%, following Saves will stack and starts at -100%
    You dealt # damage with Triple Kick!!
    You dealt # damage with Triple Kick!!
    You dealt # damage with Triple Kick!!

    Combo 4 Consecutive!!
    MP Used: 3 Damage -30% <~ because each position of consecutive is -10%, position is counted from the 1st consecutive in this example.
    Save: -60% Damage
    You dealt # damage with Bash!!

    Combo 5 Smite!!
    Damage +50%
    Save: -1 MP -40% Damage
    You dealt # damage with Earthbind!! <~ 110% damage, starting is 100%, add 50%, reduce 40% (if you wanted to be really technical, add in stacking Damage Drop Off caused by previous used physical skills, which is dependent on target, so it's not 110% damage, it is less, to get a better idea, check @Kanameru's guide here: [link])

    Combo 6 Swift!!
    Smite: -50% Damage
    Save: -20% Damage
    You don't have enough MP. <~ what?! :eek: MP Charge costs zero! Explanation: it will only cast if you use the combo at 3 MP Bars due to Save mechanic (it will also take MP away from you). if there is no Save effect, MP Charge will be casted (and of course no damage penalty after Smite which is -50%), same with Throwing Knife Lv.10 (this will take damage penalty from previous Smite). this is also one of the reasons why I don't max my MP pool on my builds, to exploit skills that cannot be casted due to insufficient MP and to utilize Damage Drop Off and AMPR with proper ASPD. :cool:
    ninja edit: corrected the double MP after Smite, only applies if Smite is the last skill, thanks @Saphos ;)

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
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  10. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    because that's the mechanic of Smite, after adding +50% damage from the skill that used it, the skill that will catch it's penalty will have double MP and -50% damage
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  11. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    try this combo from my Brawler Breaker v2 guide:
    Impact ~> Triple Kick (Smite) ~> Lance

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  12. Saphos

    Saphos Old Sword Nerd Elite Member

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    I think it only doubles the mp cost of the smited skill when there is no skill folowing. When mages use Impact > Storm (Smite) > Wall (Consec), the Wall doesn't cost them 4mp.
     
  13. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    just tested it, yes, no MP penalty cost. let me updated my previous test case
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  14. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    just edited information on my test case, yes it's the 100mp remaining from Save.
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  15. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    also, because of the topic relating to Mages and Aggro, i would like to share some information again:

    to reduce aggro, aside from using Sneak skill, you can also equip the following (there might be better gear in the future, this is just an example):

    Armor: Green Dragon Garb (aggro -5%)
    Additional: Oracle Hat (aggro -10%)
    Accessory: Spy Talisman (aggro -25%)

    - 40% aggro, not bad :p

    on topic of Smite and farming and you are a Mage, you can use this combo:
    Impact ~> Wall (Smite) ~> MP Charge (Swift)

    this will only cost you less MP bars, but the damage of Smited Wall will be the same as Normal Magic Storm.

    as i have observed, the only difference would be the following (using m.device):
    Magic Storm: Pull Mobs, 6 hits, need 4 MP bars.
    Magic Wall: Push Mobs Away, 8 hits, damage can be equal to a non-smited Magic Storm if you use Smited Wall, advantage on spamming (because you will cast MP Charge after, added Swift reduces the animation a bit after completing the skill).​

    lastly, when you are farming, set this option:
    Option ~> Target Monster: Far

    to reduce your chances of being flinched during casting, credit goes to the player that told me this method while I was farming BNuts, so credit goes to that person, (I forgot his/her IGN. :oops:)


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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
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  16. xXTALSx

    xXTALSx Well-Known Member

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    Nice.

    - but mages are king at Gskele farm and mob mats farm, and for full break parties... Can't beat a Mage..
    Archers are king if in pt of other archers - together shooting a single target.

    - also if a DPS archer were to try to spam 100mp combo without a tank pulling aggro, archer will get aggro and be K O very quickly.

    Simple explanation.
    Have all classes -
    In opinion mages win - because they are the Spina makers.
     
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  17. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    or 1 full time tank wearing aggro equips and using aggro skills, and 3 snipers spamming 1mp bar snipe combo?
    1h + Shield setup, guard rate build (every guard effect increases aggro) wearing all aggro equips, spamming skills from Knight Skill Tree to increase aggro
    however, i still wonder if that tank can still keep up.. don't have data on how much a Smited Snipe costs in terms of aggro value.. :confused:


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  18. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    also, one last thing that baffles me is the Invincibility Combo Tag. (maybe it's already implemented in-game but with hidden requirements? just a speculation.)

    lastly, too bad Swift Combo Tag cannot be stacked with Trigger Slash, they both increase animation speed by 40% (in case of Trigger Slash, animation speed buff activates after previous Trigger Slash).. no more dreams of a 2 second Rampage (Swift) cast.. :oops:

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  19. EVILOTTO

    EVILOTTO Well-Known Member

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    Hi. Fun with theory craft and possible additions before build executions
    -Impact can be replaced with a 0MP Throwing Knife
    -If your combo is ranged, your 7th non-executing skill can be replaced with any non-ranged skill
    (just tap the action button and you'll break combo)
    -you CAN execute your 7th skill if you banked sufficient MP from your SAVE skill
    (some may have thought the last skill had to be in some way canceled)
    -skill damage looks more like 100, -80, -80, -70, -20, 150 (YAY), -50
    -your SAVE skill MP should equal the sum of your SMITE and 7th skills' MPs
    (or not, if planning for your 7th skill not to execute)

    If any of this is patently wrong, tell me so I can edit this post and then call you a liar :)
    Have fun rebuilding those combo points!
     
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  20. Precaria

    Precaria Precariø ♂ Retired IG Super Likable Elite Member Wiki Contributor

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    I guess it will be for making the mobs miss their hits while you are casting the skill with Invincibility effect, or simply avoid being flinch. May be useful for skills like Rampage, or further Lv4 skills that will take time to cast. Other than that, nothing else comes to mind regarding it's mechanism.
     
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  21. EVILOTTO

    EVILOTTO Well-Known Member

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    Or useful when stringing together gawd awefully long combos which almost never ever happens
     
  22. NineArts

    NineArts Well-Known Member

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    LOL no worries, i'm an expert liar, i'm one of the grand winners of an underground game called Liar Game (kidding :D)

    anyways, on to topic, this is correct, if you got enough MP balance, the 7th skill will execute.
    i do recall i did not say anything about not having a possibility to execute the 7th skill on other combo configurations. ;)

    and to add as an information, if we have more combo points (which i'm hoping they will extend the limit), we can execute a maximum of 10 skills in one combo (under the condition that all skills have combo tags, currently you can string all skills upto 10, it only costs alot of MP).



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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  23. Ichsan

    Ichsan Well-Known Member

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    @NineArts , based on ur dust (saved) combo above, isnt the -80% is deducted from 90% of plain dust (-10% dmg drop off penalty)?
    or am i getting it wrong?
     
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