Pls Help A Tank Wanna Be...

hunting miniboss is my hobby in Toram, n not once did I find a party with a decent tank in it. hunt always turned into a mess where everyone is dying left n right...
so with this, I decided to make a tank for help shaping a better future lol.
but before that, here are some questions I'd like to ask to Tank regulars in forum:
1. is it viable to build a VIT:INT tank but still sporting sword & shield?
2. how effective is it to utilize support skills combo to gain aggros?
3. knowing that I can get guard rate boost from heavy armor & Gloria buff, is it better if I choose a shield that has bigger guard power over guard rate?
4. I'm not a fan of mp charge, so how about getting max short rest & sober? since I'm going to wear magician ring anyway?

I think that's all the questions I have in my mind (for now lol)

thank you for your attention

 

@firefox1981 @BK. @Caskadia @Islandi @Volmen @KokoBot.

This should get you the help you need, and sorry if I missed anyone else.

My tank ideas are usually 1v1, but in mini-boss oriented tank builds, you may / you have to consider multi-aggroing as whether you like it or not, it will happen. So I don't think my 1v1 ideas will suffice here ^^

 

Well theres many tank builds all depends if u want raw defence or some atck power too.
sword+sheild will be good since rage sword can be used.
however i prefere two other types
1)knux+shield = high base avoid and solid ampr but lacks atack power.
2)staff+shield fast charges and after maxing vit you can add int for higher m.atcks.
we all have diffetent tank types and each suits a spacific role.
my staff+shield is desighned for multi mob vokes over not having to spam constant voke= saving mp+2 per mob
basic combo=
Assault...sanctuary+save...shield throw+consec...impact+consec...storm+swift for now(but change to smite when int stats are aplied)...and lastly bless as a combo finisher+pt heals.
its not the fastest but holds up to 3 mini bosses varying and up to 6 non mini bosses for harder future grinding mobs.
ill let other tanks give imput to as i said theres many types.
ok official hp : 19k(non troll)
i use -
+any type of hp+vit+% staffs.
+Marble shield since the +20% guard+20% rate is nicely balanced+aggro+12%.
+Plate armour(smiths) hp+10% aggro+10%.
+ooze helm hp+10% hp regen+10% ailment resist+10%.
+Mistltoe talisman hp+6% p+m def+4% neutrall res+2%.
Xtals:
+ 2+king potems hp+20% m+p res-10% no biggie.
+Arco hp+10% def+10% etc.
+mino xtals(temporary) +2 hp+10% total aspd20%.
And leaves 1 xtal slot free.
imo the gear set up is valid for a long time so no need to constantly change for newer gear.
the only thing changeble may be xtals in near future(depending ofc).
Hope this kinda helps.
added: my other priority is quickdraw for better mp managment.this leaves me with 18 s.points left for future buffs

 

The type of tank you build can vary with the type of miniboss you want to fight. For example, violaccoon requires you to have fast reactions if you wanna avoid all the spells it spams. With that in mind, having a long combo that makes you stay in place in unwise. Gigant Knight needs to be interrupted regularly to stop his slow power swing attack that will do 90% fractional damage and is unavoidable unless interrupted. Shining Gentleman needs a high base hp and mp for recovery spam when he poisons you.

Another thing to have in mind is positioning. Unlike bosses, mini bosses are in open areas with other mobs, which means other mobs can be aggroed. However, its not as bad as it seems, as you dont really need to build for multi mini boss tanking. Generally speaking, the only party member in your group that can aggro others is the storm mage, and a tempest warrior. If that is the case, those two skills can usually kill whatever was aggroed in the first place anyways. If they aggroed a second miniboss, and I'm referring to minibosses like Gigant Knight and Shining Gentleman, then its time to run.
Note: all this can be avoided if you simply lure the miniboss to a safer area of the map.

Now, onto your questions:
1. Yes, building a vit:int tank is viable. I assume you mean putting in 1 vit and 1 int as you level. This will give a balanced defense and magic defense as you level. In addition, if you stat like this, getting bless max would be a good idea, as your heals will eventually increase.
2. Support skills can create just as much aggro as any other skill. They are, in many ways, better than using mainstream target skills to gain aggro. As an example, lets take the Protection buff from shield tree. At level 10, and if not using a shield, it will cause 500 aoe aggro, from anywhere within the map, towards any already-in-combat mobs. So, you can cause aggro from far away, give a buff to your whole team, and not have to run up to the mob in the first place.
As a side note, I have an aoe aggro tank based on using support skills, and its quite fun to use.
3. IIRC gloria gives a guard rate boost of 15% at max level. Its up to you if you wanna take that into account when choosing a shield.
4. With max short rest and sober analysis, and equipped with a magicians ring, it will take you 3-4 auto hits to regenerate a full mp bar, at base ampr. If this is fine for you, then your other equipment should be based on what you feel you need most. Generally speaking, hp is always good to have, but there are other things you need to keep in mind. Your aggro % is an important factor, as well as your ampr. I mentioned it'd take 3-4 hits with base ampr. Well, assuming you have ampr gear, it could take you just 2 hits to get a full bar. Obviously, this is good, since more mana equals more skills equals more aggro generation. If you feel you have a comfortable amount of hp to tank the miniboss, then going the ampr/aggro% route is more recommended.

Some other notes:
A tank's job is to keep aggro and survive, not to high damage. Too many people who want to make tanks get these concepts confused, and try to make some kind of mixture between the two. This makes a character that cant quite do good dps, nor can it quite do good tanking. If you're gonna make a tank, stick to being a tank, is what I'm saying.

A top priority of tanking is your freedom of movement. A tank needs to be able to move consistently to avoid mini boss skills, or reposition the mini boss itself. Keep this in mind if you're going to make a combo that makes you stay in place for a long time.

If you have other questions, or would like to see build examples, feel free to contact me or post on my thread.
http://toramonline.com/index.php?threads/rip-tanks-a-guide-to-tanks.8379/
Note: my builds are spread throughout the pages, so just scan through them to see what build you like.

 

See many build types with pluses and negatives.
mines a longer combo yet presents no problems even vs g.knight since his fractional atck takes 4 secs to power up thus why i put impact in as tumble lol
others brawler builds are ok but tend to die fast vs magical due to lower hp and also a lower and slower charge speed between those vital times since they " mostly rely on spamming voke and vs multimobs for more eficient farms renderd slower.plus g.knights fractional dmg is 60% since on 19k hp it leaves me with 8k hp just thought id correct that.
so yes @DansAway many pros and cons lets see how things progress at higher caps tbh..
plus a tank imo is ment to stand and not run vs bosses or why not just make any tank with 3k hp and just voke and run like mad it totaly defeats the purpose of tank...
when did anyone last see a rl tank speed off,?

 

Please watch out for firefox, as he tends to immaturely contradict whatever I say. You can see his tank philosophy is to stand and take damage, while mine is to avoid damage if possible and cause aggro. Granted, his way is easier to manage, as youre basically just being a punching bag and relying on revitas to save you (a costly way btw). However, as your skill and knowledge of boss habits increase, you'll find that avoiding boss skills is easier, more effective and reduces reliance on revitas.

I've since learned to ignore firefox, as his comments are detrimental to the advancement of tanking.

 

@Starlord hes making somthing similer too and tanks s.g with just 8k hp and hes lvling further now to add impact for multi pull and hes loving it ^^

 

Did i realy? Did i mention cas? I meerly stated pros and cons like you did on ur coment below my first post (as i once said if ppl csnt handle counter critisism back dont post negstives first) simple realy. So stop pretending to be the victim its pathetic so please watch out for cas ss she tends to like trying to diminish my builds.like a combo i made on another thread- feel free to check.

 

I think as far as tanking multiple mini-bosses is concerned, quick, 1mp combo spamming is the approach I see as yielding the best result.

That said, I hypothesize that the best setup might be Vit:Int Xbow+Shield Sub. Theoretically, the combo setup should look to be:
Moeba Shot-Smoke Dust(save)-Shield Cannon(Swift)-Paralysis Shot(Consecutive)-Magic:Impact-Sanctuary(Swift)

 

Good idea slash high aggro spams and who said an archer had to be all atck ^^
an old build i used was bowgun+shield precaria saw the build and liked it now imagaine it full vit then focus atck later
= fast spams/interupts/ later dmg
(Thumbs up)

 

Just to be clear, In case someone asks "where is provoke/rage sword?" the combo I theorized will probably make/attract so much aggro in 1mp, Provoke might need to be used 3 times before taking ONE mini-boss away.


As for strategy, don't be a hero that dives into 4 MiniBosses who TRIES to be a Sponge tank... No, it's not gonna work. xD Tanking multiple bosses requires being a Kite Tank. The combo I suggested is for Kiting. xP

 

Just for reference, your combo will cause 2900 aggro without any aggro % gear. It will take approximately 2.4 provokes to get to 2900 aggro.

*this is assuming all skills are max level.

 

I've been under the impression that provoke's formula was (mp cost + [skill LV x 100]). When was this changed?

 

So from Caskadia's figure of 2900 aggro, the combo I posted needs 2 provokes then? Well anyhoo, that's still 4mp for 1 mp. On the downside of the xbow+shield combo though, it takes maybe 4-6 seconds to do it. Still the advantages of Xbow+Shield as a tank for multiple minibosses is Kiting so, the time to complete the combo shouldn't be an issue. Well, theoretically. xD

 

http://www2.hp-ez.com/hp/mobilephoenix/page35

Here's where I'm basing my formula from. The name for it, after translation, is "Purobogu". I will do a quick test on this by making a 2900 aggro combo.

If it can be outaggroed in 2 provokes, then its something higher than 1500 aggro for 1 provoke. If it takes 3 or more, then the aggro is something lower than 1500.

 

ow snap...
these're lot of informations to be processed in the morning.
thanks lot @Saphos for gathering the experts here
@Caskadia and @firefox1981 for giving detailed answers and insights of being tank
@WindSlash for giving a tank type suggestion
@BK. well... i expect something more man, lol

so yeah, i used to have a tanking period back in 2015 where my brawler most oftenly took Tank rank, even tho i tried to build it as DPS brawler.
then after reading more, it's Shell Break that secured aggro for me, expecially if guard break proc.

so there it is, i think i'll take my chance to do another brawler but the one that done a shield this time

so, my theory build is:

MARTIAL SKILLS:
Smash - 10
Sonic Wave - 10
Bash - 5
Shell Break - 10 (5 secs guard break, 5 secs window for whole party to deal +30% more damage)
Aggravate - 10 (more AMPR)
Hard Smash - 1 (maining knuckle already gives decent proc rate. how useful is lethargy again? lol)

SHIELD SKILLS:
Shield Mastery - 5
Shield Bash - 1~?? (maybe? if it secures 90%~100% proc chance of stun if maxed??)
Force Shield - 10
Magical Shield - 10
Protection - 10
Aegis - 10

KNIGHT SKILLS:
Provoke - 10 (i won't get this one right off the bat, gotta test the effectiveness of full status inliction combo to hold aggros first)
Assault - 1 (red @Argo skill tree thread, using shield already boosts it's knock back proc rate by 50% so... enough at Lv1? how about the slow down effect?)

PRIEST SKILLS:
Bless - 5 (not gonna use this anyway, since i'm planning to go VIT all in)
Gloria - 10

SURVIVAL SKILLS:
Safe Rest - 5
HP Boost - 10
Fighter's High - ?~?? (this passive is still cloudy for me, since i've tried @Caskadia guide on it but still can't make it work in battle...)
Short Rest - 10
Sober Analysis - 1~? (okay, this one is cloudy too... i've done a test swapping talismans >< magician ring. while with magician ring, i can say that it's short rest that matters to AMPR since higher MP pools, yet with talismans maxed sober only gives like 3~5 AMPR per hit??)

SUPPORT SKILLS:
First Aid - 5
Mini Heal - 10 (show me some light here @BK. is this one favors INT or just % of max hp?)
Recovery - 5 (who doesn't hate those bleed n silence lol)
Sanctuary - 10 (@BK. help me here too pls, does this works against fractional damages?)

GUARD SKILLS:
Heavy Armor - 10 (guard rate +15? isn't it??)

holymoms, that's whole 176+ SPs required...!!!
ofc I'm gonna pick the essential ones first than complete it once we got more SPs

my combo theory:
Sonic Wave > Hard Smash/Sanctuary (save)> Shell Break (cons)> Smash (cons)> Sanctuary/Hard Smash (swift)
with other stuffs (provoke, mini heal, gloria, protection/aegis, etc.) to be casted as standalone, and smash as back-up flincher.

phew, so with those stuffs typed...
what do you think guys???

 

Good lad shield brawler ftw ill post u my old build vid