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Attack Range

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by FrostHydra97, May 21, 2022.

  1. FrostHydra97

    FrostHydra97 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is not important and you might have already known, but it's very likely that the displayed range ingame is either edge-to-edge range (distance from the edge of target's hitbox to edge of player's hitbox) or edge-to-center (distance from the edge of target's hitbox to player's center) range, and is rounded up. And the target circles of the mobs/minibosses/bosses are estimated visual of their hitboxes.
    A few examples (I tried to stay at the furthest edge of the 1m range aka the spot where tiny movement outward would make the displayed range value increases to 2m):
    upload_2022-5-21_22-46-0.png upload_2022-5-21_22-46-18.png upload_2022-5-21_22-46-25.png upload_2022-5-21_22-46-29.png upload_2022-5-21_22-58-45.png

    Had to stay at 2m range in Venena room because going to 1m will trigger all enemies
    upload_2022-5-21_22-57-52.png upload_2022-5-21_22-57-59.png

    Also, with that as base:
    - Clarity Rose, Scarlet Sakura Fairy Sword, Black Shadow Nodachi,... that were thought to have 3m range, actually has 2.5m range.
    - Most knuckles have 1.5m range instead of 2m.
    - Most halberds have 3.5m range instead of 4m.
    Yeah, the .5 in range exists. Idk about any smaller decimal but at least .5 exists.
    Using what I said above (displayed range value is edge range rounded up) to prove it. The weapons I listed, when standing at the furthest edge of their thought-to-be range (aka the rounded 3m/2m/4m), you still won't attack yet, or you will move in a little bit before actually starting to attack. Other weapons with genuine 3m/2m/4m range still attack normally.
    I used to wonder why my ktn char using BS Nodachi sometimes doesn't attack while leveling at Cerberus, despite already standing at the spot that makes the range displayed as 3m, and have no attack cooldown, no skill in use, no nothing, completely free and available to do anything. Then someone else also said to me that Cosmic Sword (the 2hs dropped in Otsukimi event that is said/known to have "4m range") doesn't actually has 4m range but instead a little bit less. All those stuff led to this.
     
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  2. RokuMLG

    RokuMLG Well-Known Member

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    No, I have to disagree with the edge theory. This is far not efficient in computing.
    What is happening here is still a centre-to-centre measurement so the game only needs to measure point A to point B, not point A to any point of sphere B and take minimum distance. The real difference is that measuring a sphere will require several samples from point A to any part of sphere B, then you have additional comparisons to find a minimum return. All of that is just for calculating the distance between the two entities.
    And yes, it's not a circle, the area that let you tap and select the monster is always spherical. Whatever the distance you looking at is not only for the ground surface distance (2 dimension) but actually 3 dimension distance with the vertical axis near zero when being measured at ground level.

    When you go to "edge" of the 1m range and the number jumps to 2m, what is actually going on?
    This is how most integer numbers will show up. Say you are trying to pass a fractional number, the output of an integer will very often truncate the decimal part and take the integer part only. I.e.: 1.23 will always be 1; 3.999999 will always be 3;....
    If you see the measurement is 1m, it means you are anywhere between 1.0000... to 1.9999.... How many decimals there is dependent on memory allowed based on the program. You can come closer to the target and it will says 0. This does not mean you already enter the target "edge" and it says 0. It means you are anywhere between 0.0000... to 0.9999.... Remember the distance is still measured from a single point from the centre of one entity to another.

    How about the .5 range or any other decimal?
    Yea but are you really sure that it's exactly ".50" and not ".59". You can only estimate them between the closest decimal place, which is the whole integer itself. You also mention most halberd has 3.5m range. Are you very confident that it is exactly .5 between 3m and 4m but not 0.6? In fact, if you use most OHS sword that says 2m, is it actually 2.0m but not 2.1m?
    I would not really recommend using "accurate" measurement down to below integer value. The very basic issue is that you do not have an accurate measurement tool in the first place and everything is pretty much estimated at this point. So, even if other people do say that this is 3.5m range, do not take it as exactly halfway from 3m to 4m. Rather says this is a halfway estimation 3~4m range.
     
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  3. FrostHydra97

    FrostHydra97 Well-Known Member

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    I did say that the target "circle" is merely a visual estimation of the hitbox. And what if the hitzone of a target is cylindrical instead of spherical? I've seen games that used cylindrical hitzone so it's also possible that Toram uses the same. With that they only need to measure the horizontal distance, and little need for vertical measurement except for when necessary.
    FYI games like Warcraft or LoL also use similar kind of hitcheck for their attacks and skills and stuff. Plus having spherical hitzone in such cases might be weird since majority of models do not fit in a spherical hitbox, which could lead to weird behavior.
    Though, maybe the hitbox really is spherical, since the target circle stays at strange positions sometimes. Or maybe the targeting zone is actually not the same as the actual hitbox, just equal or similar diameter. Or they used cylindrical for distance measurement, and the distance is only horizontal distance.

    I also have to disagree with this based on my observation. The moment I touch the edge of the "target circle", the distance immediately becomes 0m regardless of the size of that "circle". Both on the tiny Vanilla Potum to the big ass Cerberus. Using your theory, it would mean that in both cases I'm about 0.9999999...m away from their centers. But I'm pretty sure that the size of their target circles are not the same, as you can see in the ss.
    Unless you mean both of that tiny center-to-edge distance of Vanilla Potum and that 2-player-wide radius of Cerberus are equal.
    Tbh I also used to think the same as you do before all of this, but after all these I can't agree anymore. This also actually explained a few other things I and some other people had been questioning so it's even harder for me to disagree with this new theory.

    Yeah, as I said, Idk if other decimals exists, aside from the estimated .5. Best I could know is that it's somewhere between, so I just went with the .5, at least to know that it's "somewhere between".
    Beside, this is Toram. There are bunch of stuff that can only be estimated, especially ever since data mining is not possible anymore. So yeah, these are the best I could come up with.
     
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  4. Red_Fox

    Red_Fox Internet Pirate Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    the 0.5m range should have been known ever since we got "detailed" skill descriptions, but most people ignored this knowledge in favour of multipliers.
    the calculation may still be point-to-point but the player and monsters have sizes, so it's likely point-to-point from the edge of the object radius.
    this is noticeable at large monsters, which have a longer 0m range compared to small monsters when you walk through them.
    (i discovered this when trying to calculate the hit chance of Meteor Strike.)

    according to data-mined skill info, some skills have range of x.75, and some skills that increase in range with skill level extend linearly but the difference between lv1 and 10 is not cleanly divisible by 0.5 steps. the numbers are cut off at some point, but at least 0.25 units exist, and maybe the smallest measurement unit goes down to 0.05m.
     

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