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Toram Stat Calculator Ver 0.3 + Equipment, Crysta & Skill

Discussion in 'Toram Online Game Guides' started by Cruithne, Jul 25, 2016.

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  1. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    I mean once casted the buff icon disappears but if u auto ull regain mp like u do when using trigger, tho once u evade it fully removes it.
    Also just testing now, i believe shadowstep is the same as trigger. 1.1k mp, so 20 from base 11 from mp, so 31ampr x2 from shadowstep is 62ampr i estimated it would take 17hits to recover that, it did, tho if shadowstep did actually give bonus ampr due to the amount of mp im guessing it would give +1ampr every 300mp, 1117÷17=64, if its right having 1.2k mp would take 18hits at 65ampr
     
    BK, Sep 2, 2016
    #61
  2. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Okay both trigger and shadowstep needed the exact same amount of hits at 1.2k mp 19hits, with 62ampr with both, with 1205mp using trigger it was 63.42 with 1216mp using shadowstep it was 64, because of the higher mp 2nd time round (both were dw tho trigger was on 2h using dw sword, and shadow was on a new dw for testing) would this be fair to say they both dbl ampr? Trigger being motionspeed buff+ampr and shadow being manual evade+c rate buff on next skill+ampr, the 2 ampr buffs are the same just trigger for actual 1h/2h and shadow is more suited for a dw
     
    BK, Sep 2, 2016
    #62
  3. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    I'm not trying to offense, just informing.
    When I said 500mp gave me 30 ampr,
    I meant that
    for DW, baseAMPR should be 20+(2% of MaxMP), not 20+(1% of MaxMP)
    The baseAMPR is doubled, just the same as @Cithrune said before.

    I had been tricked by the baseAMPR mechanism once before, so I just rechecked it.

    I mean, with 1.1kMP and without ampr boost, you should have 42baseAMPR, not 31baseAMPR.

    Edited: rechecked and edited my words where are grammatically wrong
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    Monochrome, Sep 2, 2016
    #63
  4. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    I see. So if any other bonusAMPR from skills in the future has the chance to be scaled with an MP Recovery parameter, then it has high chance to be MaxMP. At first I thought it would be baseAMPR.

    Btw, you asked things you had thoroughly tested. Were they asked in order to test the knowledge of ampr from the very beginning? =A= You're quite a strategist I'd say.

    Anyway, thanks for the information.
     
    Monochrome, Sep 2, 2016
    #64
  5. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Nope just the base ampr is 20 with dw, the ampr from max mp is a fixed amount of ampr so with 1h or 2h using trigger it would be 32ampr, i know this because i use my 2h too much and the same combo since forever, if dw ampr did dbl everything i wouldve regained 1.2k mp in less hits, it actually wouldve took me 14hits to regain 1.2k mp, this is why i believe it is the amount i said
     
    BK, Sep 2, 2016
    #65
  6. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Turns out both of us are right, without trigger or shadowstep, base ampr is 20, with 1.5k mp it added 30ampr so 50 in total, but with trigger or shadow active it removes the dbled ampr from mp making it 35x2(20base+15from mp x2), so with that, thats an extra 20ampr
    So on dw, base ampr=20 mp ampr 2/100, when trigger or shadow active base ampr=20+mp1/100 x2, kinda confusing doing this at 6:21am xD
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #66
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  7. Caithe

    Caithe Well-Known Member

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    haha, ure overthinking things xD
    btw im not the one who find out that the shadowstep buff is scaled of maxMP, i read it somewhere in the forum, and then i tested it wether its true or not, i compared the ampr bonus between having a smaller and larger MP pool, it seems that when i have larger MP pool, shadowstep buff give me more ampr bonus, its either that or i've been tricked by ampr bonus from maxMP itself, still not sure xD
    that's why to make things clear i asked if u happens to know shadowstep formula and confirm if its really scaled of maxMP :D
     
    Caithe, Sep 3, 2016
    #67
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  8. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Became curious, so I decided to tested it.
    With the Magician Ring equipped, baseAMPR is really 42, which means baseAMPR = 20+(2% of MaxMP)

    You may try this, set your MaxMP to 1100 with Magician Ring.
    Now spam Hard Hit 3 times to deplete 300MP, then count the times of hits you need in order to recover your MP to 1100 again.
    - if it's 20+1%, you'll have 31 baseAMPR. You'll take 10 times to obtain 310MP.
    - if it's 20+2%, you'll have 42 baseAMPR. You'll take 8 times to recover 336MP.
    - take note that if you happen to have 1106MP or more, you'll need to recover only 294MP. So the 42baseAMPR case will become 7×42=294. And thus you'll need only 7 times of hit for the 42baseAMPR case. (the least-significant digit is quite important too and should not be neglected)

    When I tested, I had 1102MaxMP. And I need 8 times of hits. So I think it's 20+2%.

    Oh, so you've tested it too.
    I feel you. Being confused with baseAMPR is quite bothersome for me too. And it could lead to wrong calculation for all the bonusAMPR if we misunderstood this mechanism.
    Now to think that blade skills affect DWbaseAMPR too, I'm quite nerved now haha. I was on the belief that bonusAMPR are from gears and skills, while baseAMPR is from MaxMP only. I thought this should be the proper concept.
    I may try to test the effect of TriggerSlash on DWbaseAMPR later on.


    Oh I see. Sorry for misunderstanding hahaha XD.
    The DWbaseAMPR is 20+(2% of MaxMP). Maybe you can use this information to calculate and substract the MP recovered by baseAMPR out, so the calculation might be easier to see whether the bonusAMPR scales with MaxMP or not.
    Edited: according to @BK. tests, I'm no longer sure whether my assumption is right.

    I'm interested in this too, but has no clue whether which way will it go. It will be really great if someone tests it, because it can help many Dual Wielders (may including me in the future) to have proper build.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #68
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  9. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Okay ive woke up abit now, its true without trigger/shadowstep when using auto attacks ur ampr is 20+2% of every 100mp that u have, when using trigger/shadowstep ur ampr is 40+2% of every 100mp that u have, then any ampr through gear/xstals add to the base ampr, which is 20 without trigger/shadowstep and 40 with either of them
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
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  10. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Again, I tested on the belief that bonusAMPR are from skills and gears, while baseAMPR is from MaxMP only.
    The results still correlated with my belief,
    and I think it suits Asobimo better due to simple concept just like the other algorithms we've known.
    Anyway, TriggerSlash happens to have different effect when equipped with Dual Swords.
    Here are the results:

    Dual Swords:
    baseAMPR = 20 + (2% of MaxMP)
    TriggerSlash:
    • Level 1: +2 bonusAMPR
    • Level 2: +4 bonusAMPR
    • Level 3: +6 bonusAMPR
    • ...
    • Level 10: +20 bonusAMPR
    ShadowStep: Cannot test yet.​

    1-H and 2-H Swords:
    baseAMPR = 10 + (1% of MaxMP)
    TriggerSlash:
    • Level 1: +1 bonusAMPR
    • Level 2: +2 bonusAMPR
    • Level 3: +3 bonusAMPR
    • ...
    • Level 10: +10 bonusAMPR
    ShadowStep: Cannot test yet.​

    The AMPR of 1-H Sword was tested yesterday, here is only the Dual Swords AMPR.
    I tested with 513MaxMP, results in 20+(2% of 513MaxMP) = 30 baseAMPR.

    At TriggerSlash LV5,
    • If it added +5 bonusAMPR
      • I would have 30 baseAMPR + 5 bonusAMPR = 35 AMPR in total.
      • Activating TriggerSlash costed 300MP. My leftover MP would be 213MP.
      • I would need 287MP more to fulfill the MP Bar back to 500MP.
      • It would take 9 times of hits for 35 AMPR. ( 8 times give 280 MP, and so it'd be only 493MP in total )
    • If it adds +10 bonusAMPR
      • I will have 30 baseAMPR + 10 bonusAMPR = 40 AMPR in total.
      • Activating TriggerSlash costs 300MP. My leftover MP would be 213MP.
      • I would need 287MP more to fulfill the MP Bar back to 500MP.
      • It would take 8 times of hits for 40 AMPR. ( 7 times give 280 MP, and so it'd be only 493MP in total )
    • Results: Repeatedly tested for about 5~6 times, it always took 8 times.
    • Conclusion: For Dual Swords, Level-5 TriggerSlash gives you 10 bonusAMPR.
    At TriggerSlash LV10,
    • If it added +10 bonusAMPR
      • I would have 30 baseAMPR + 10 bonusAMPR = 40 AMPR in total.
      • Activating TriggerSlash costed 200MP. My leftover MP would be 313MP.
      • I would need 187MP more to fulfill the MP Bar back to 500MP.
      • It would take 5 times of hits for 40 AMPR. ( 4 times give 160 MP, and so it'd be only 473MP in total )
    • If it adds +20 bonusAMPR
      • I will have 30 baseAMPR + 20 bonusAMPR = 50 AMPR in total.
      • Activating TriggerSlash costs 300MP. My leftover MP would be 313MP.
      • I would need 187MP more to fulfill the MP Bar back to 500MP.
      • It would take 4 times of hits for 50 AMPR. ( 3 times give 150 MP, and so it'd be only 463MP in total )
    • Results: Tested twice, it took 4 hits for both tests.
    • Conclusion: For Dual Swords, Level-10 TriggerSlash gives you 20 bonusAMPR.
    As you can see, I just tested it briefly for only level 5 and level 10 this time.
    So I'm not 100% sure too if they're all correct or not. I'll test the other level of TriggerSlash when I have time.
     
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #70
  11. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    This just supports my tests, the reason why i said trigger10 shadow10 dbls base ampr is because it does, even u stated that, +20 for dw which dbl and +10 for 1h/2h which is also dbl, which is what ive been saying both trigger and shadow at lvl 10 give +20base ampr +2% of total mp for dw so it ends up being a total of +40base ampr+2% of total mp, 20base ampr is the amount u get for equipping 2swords whether u have 100mp or 2k mp the base ampr is still 20 and 40with trigger10 or shadow10, mp doesnt add to base ampr it stays separate as its always 2% of total mp, if it did add to base ampr it would become 4% of total mp, any +ampr u have through gear or xstals add to the base ampr, 1h/2h 10base ampr +1% of total mp, with trigger 10 it becomes 20base ampr and still +1% of total mp, also if base ampr was the ampr from mp, how would we still recover 10+mp without trigger etc with any weapon except dw and 20+ with dw, on my 2h i have 700+ mp and a base ampr of +12, with trigger its 24base ampr+7 from mp, i always recover 1 bar in 4autos sometimes 3 because ampr is over 30, recorded a vid using dw showing how what im saying is true
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #71
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  12. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    BK, Sep 3, 2016
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  13. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Oh sorry, I thought you meant DW TriggerSlash had effect on baseAMPR instead of bonusAMPR.
    Now as you explicate, I've just understood what you really meant in the first place.
    So our test on TriggerSlash is exactly the same, I think our results are correct then.
    Thanks for the clarification!
     
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #73
  14. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    It does effect base ampr but each rank is increased as a multiple , base10 then rank 1 is 1.1x base rank 2 1.2x base up to x2 base at rank 10 but the ampr from mp is a fixed addition unlike ampr from gears/xstals that add to the base ampr, its confusing but also easy to actually understand it( i hope)
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #74
  15. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Nah, I just mean our word definitions are different. The understandings are the same.
    For me (just as I wrote in my guide), baseAMPR = AMPR from MaxMp
    bonusAMPR = AMPR from gears, xtals, and skills (for me, bonus doesn't mean temporary. I mean bonus those came from things other than your MaxMP, because MaxMP seems to be the core of MP Recovery calculation)

    For you, baseAMPR = from MaxMP + from gears & xtals
    bonusAMPR = temporary AMPR from skills (?)
    This is what I understand at the moment.

    So there is no differences in our results.
     
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #75
  16. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Ah i mean Base ampr= 10 from each weapon type except DW, DW being 20Base ampr, i say Base ampr because thats ur ampr by default, like with 100mp, it would take 10hits for each weapon type except DW, DW needing 5hits to recover that 1 bar, in my eyes thats what Base Ampr is, then Ampr+ stats from gear/xstals and even skills(Aggravate) add to that Base Ampr, i would say Ampr from mp is fixed Ampr as nothing can increase it like skills etc only dw because its 2%100mp then temporary ampr would be trigger/shadow
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #76
  17. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Ours are different because of our purpose.
    For me, bonus from Aggravate and any others are added to bonusAMPR, not baseAMPR.
    I viewed baseAMPR as from only MaxMP (excluding skills). Since I always conduct AMPR experiments with a brand new character, it's more convenient for me to look the AMPR from MaxMP as a controlled variable I always need to know first, while AMPR from all those skills are the one I need to calculate later on. That's why I viewed them as bonusAMPR.

    Anyway, I agree with you that when it comes to the point we need to explain the algorithm of AMPR, putting AMPR from gears and xtals into baseAMPR seems to be a better way. While mine is just to make the calculation easier for myself.
     
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #77
  18. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Mhm because only base ampr can be multiplied by skills, just depends on what term we want to call it really, we could call the fixed ampr from mp, Mp Ampr, just tryna simplify each meaning because theres no set term for it xD,
    Id personally like it as
    Base Ampr: The Default Ampr that All weapons start off with, 1h,2h,bow, bg, staff, md, knucks and unarmed being a default 10 Base Ampr whilst DW being a Default 20 Base Ampr, Any Ampr+ through equipment and xstals will add to this and can be multiplied by Trigger Slash and Shadowstep depending on skill lvl

    Mp Ampr: This gives a fixed amount of Ampr and cannot be enhanced by Trigger Slash or Shadowstep, With all weapon types except DW Mp Ampr gives 1% of total Mp whilst DW gives 2% of total Mp, Example 1000Mp will give you 10Ampr where as DW will get 20Ampr, keep in mind Mp Ampr cannot be enhanced by skills making it a fixed increase

    Total Ampr: This is just Base Ampr + Mp Ampr.
    Dunno how well this describes it but i tried xD
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #78
  19. Monochrome

    Monochrome Well-Known Member

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    Judakou, Arcara, «HVGEEK», No. 88/17, Monochrome
    Yeah, it sounds better to describe as the way you are currently using.
    By the way, from my former tests, I guess bonusAMPR from Trigger Slash is a constant regardless of AMPR I've already got from the gears.
    For example, 1-h swordies wearing +1 AMPR gears and +10 AMPR gears obtain the same amount of AMPR from Trigger Slash (+10AMPR at lv10)
    Do our tests on this case have the same results?
    Anyway, I haven't tried to test this effect on Dual Swords yet.
     
    Monochrome, Sep 3, 2016
    #79
  20. BK

    BK The Best Elite Burger Known To Mankind Staff Member MODERATOR Elite Member Epic Member

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    Hm im not too sure, its harder to test when the numbers are smaller plus i havnt got any decent ampr gears but ill see what i can do
     
    BK, Sep 3, 2016
    #80
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