The rise of no-interruption bosses

Meh, it's okay, but seeing as there's a class that's pretty reliant on these skills (while being for the most part being unable to contribute to fighting bosses otherwise) it raises the question as to why asomibo would push brawlers to the side in order to to make boss fighting more difficult. Mind you that making one or two bosses that are resistant to brawlers specifically would be fine, but it's reaching a point where its to be expected that brawlers will be ineffective against all bosses beyond what we have already. Asomibo is pretty much just showing off different versions of the same one trick pony at this point. Of course, the game still has a long way to go, and I'm sure that we'll be seeing some new and interesting bosses that require different strategies to defeat, but at the same time asomibo is setting a precedent that brawlers are not as strategically useful as say a sniper or a swordfu.

 

Did anyone know how to use pierce stuff? When i klik it in special item. There is on option to "use"

 

Even longer reply train, CHOO CHOO! (I shouldn't slack off with replying -.-')

I'm not arguing with that. Rather, I'm arguing with the consequences that those mechanics bring. If people have to interrupt, everyone has to invest on VIT. That's this sort of build restriction I don't really like. Sure, Snipers can get VIT because they can cap DEX, and become tanky DPSes. Sure, Mages can get VIT because they capped INT, and DEX doesn't give them that much more damage anyway, and VIT with INT makes them the ultimate tanks. (etc) But what about *-Fus? What about Bow users? What about DW? Those builds CANNOT afford to use any stat points on VIT (at least not right now). And even if they did, Asobimo is basically telling us: "Hey, you can make any build you want, but non-VIT builds are poop because we make it so!"

That's a brilliant idea as well! Also, thanks for the info from the Monster Hunter series! (never played those)

Good joke sir! Made me chuckle!
... Oh wait you were serious.

OK, more seriously, I think a few of my acquaintances/buddies would like to have a word with you about that. Or maybe they don't.

A'ight, gonna do the same here.

My example in this game of it being not true (for me at least) is Nurethoth. Despite many people knowing how the mechanic works for him and his patterns, the boss stays pretty challenging. Sure, you could argue that it's due to the Outerworld Monsters, but they get OHKOed by simple auto-attacks and physical skills, so they're manageable (unlike Cassy at Mezzy which are unkillable and OHKO you with an AoE that's cast almost instantly, and the eggs at Jade Raptor, which can screw you over real bad even if they only deal 1 dmg).
Outside of this game, there are innumerable examples of bosses having their patterns deciphered, yet managing to stay challenging.
For me, this is how a boss should be designed: readable patterns, but still pretty tough to keep you on your toes.

I don't have much to say about that one because you're right.
However, you forgot about Jade Raptor. It's a "get damaged or get damaged" situation. You either let it pummel you to death and INFLICT POISON if it wasn't enough or make it AoE everyone.
Right now, that point doesn't have a big importance because the bosses are still tame. But in the future, we might need those flinches for some bosses with OP moves, and they might just OHKO everyone with an AoE once you do flinch them.

A few questions so that you can understand the main problem:
- What do you get when you remove Smash, Bash and Sonic Wave from a Brawler, as well as other options to interrupt?
- Is what you get able to tank bosses effectively in a metagame where Snipe spammers and Sword-Fus/2H reign supreme, or get a Breaker rank?

I do too. I like that they actually want to make the game more challenging. However, I'm just making this thread because I feel they aren't doing it the right way.
Still, I appreciate that you gave your opinion on this. This could help us (mostly me) get an idea of what's fair and what's not about it, then see exactly what needs to be fixed (if anything).

 

Asobimos steps to trolling :
-Step 1 : Give all players easy access to stun, flinch, tumble skills,
-Step 2 : Make bosses resisted and repercussive to these effects,
-Step 3 :...
-Step 4 : Lay back and watch them rage!

 

Pfft, if pets are anything like they were in iruna (and let's hope theyre not) they'll all be lvl 1, have terrible stats and only capable of "dying for your sins" to revive you XD

 

I see annas point (13thguy) - hi bud xD about less fortunate builds having to restrict theyre dps for vit however vit is sadly important too yes Bk ur right about seeing ppl under 3k hp tackling bosses that hit above that threshold" but abimso has severly penalised ppl on toram to force choose there builds i love vit stat but even my new build is forced between crit stat and vit atm its making me pull my hair out lol

 

Think after maxing out int, I should got vit/dex 50:50...

 

Nah its not even that tbh im to use to irunas +3 stats per lvl meaning 100 cap = 300 stat points and for some reason were restricted to 272 stat points that missing 28 throws some of my iruna to toram theorys a little down.
As you know most my builds are ballanced hybrids i just miss those 28 points thats all

 

Ive decided on my new build str 172 crit 100 tbh id rather do cosntant stable dmg over the odd major spike dmg.

 

i think ill agree with u on crit stat, if we got 100 crit on stat, then we dont need to equip any crit equipment and just focus on gaining more damage/survival.
just to make sure, does 100 crit make ur crits all the time, or does toram have crit limit ?

 

Time to get serious! ^_^

 

Funny, Nurethoth was the first thing that came to mind when I thought of bosses that are hard at first but very easy when you figure out a good strategy. I remember I had a tough time killing him on the very day he came out, but we all had it down to an art that very night. He's actually pretty easy.

I actually didn't mention him because I haven't gotten to him yet. That sounds interesting.
Up until this point, DPS was all you needed. Farming parties for bosses were all snipers and stormers. Stun the boss a few times, inflict lots of damage before he moves, done. Now, DPS isn't enough.
You need a good tank who can stun on pillar golem to keep him off you and to absorb the damage from PG's counters if needed.
DPS alone can't kill Nurethoth. You need at least a tank, a DPS and a brawler for a quick and easy farm.
I haven't gotten to Jade Raptor yet, but it sounds like you'd benefit greatly from bringing a support character along. Support characters can heal multiple party members at once, reduce damage, and even prevent or remove ailments. Also, maybe now people will listen to me when I tell them how underrated Vaccines are lol Cheap, available, come in stacks of 99 and block out ailments.

People told me before that support characters weren't all that needed in Toram when I started making my support character. Now with this latest boss, it sounds like it would be invaluable to bring one along.
That's how I see this whole thing. DPS alone is no longer enough. The META is changing.

I honestly have no idea about any of this. I think the way the bosses are changing, it's mostly a "certain classes are best fitted for certain bosses" situation. Agaain, I haven't played the brawler class myself, so I have no insight on how they work or anything, I'm no expert on this particular subject =x

I personally feel they are doing something right, if classes that were previously thought of as unnecessary are suddenly are suddenly being brought back up again.

 

Actually for Jade you need a GOOD BUILD. And what I mean by a good one, is a balanced one. DPS-only most likely die even with potions. Tank-only eats tons of revitas due to fractional damage wiping thousands of HP and can die too with bad positioning (stunned where Jade will attack with linear aoe). Support-only is unwanted, this specific fight needs damage contribution from everyone. I've been farming it non stop and in 4 out of 5 parties my mage is the only survivor at some point, ppl need to fix or balance their builds before attempting to farm Jade. It isn't "one more boss", it is a real boss and I'm enjoying it because of it.

 

I think we have different visions of "easy". For me, an "easy" boss is a boss I can effectively solo. I have a Mage char that has self-sustainable most of the time. I soloed PG and Yelb the day they came out. Once I figured out their trick, I didn't even need a single Revita. DG is easily soloable, and Roga might be if played right.
However, as you just said:

(except a team of DPSes can actually solo Nure, I think)
Even if I can tank him for a long while, I don't think I'm able to solo him (not yet at least). And this is why I consider Nure different from the others: you actually NEED to work with others to farm him.

To be fair, his AoE doesn't deal too much damage, but it is enough to tip the scales during the fight.

Well, allow me to explain so that you get an idea. While the 2 other points are born from my salt alone, this one is the one that actually really matters IMO. Brawlers' main gimmick is to gain the Breaker rank through auto-attacking AND interrupting/inflicting statuses. However, with these new mechanics, they are essentially punishing them for doing of their jobs (you can guess which one it is). For defense raises, it doesn't matter that much. For counter mechanics, however, their usefulness are reduced a lot more. They don't want to flinch or tumble at all (and stun on certain cases), and their damage is already low as is. It outright makes those bosses impossible to solo, and reduce the desire of a Brawler in a pt (yes, even for defense bosses, as these can be easily melt down with powerful strikes when their defense is low, so why bother breaking, right). At this rate, Knuckles are just going to become *-Fu fodder.

Fair enough... but then I reiterate this: having a boss that not only forces you to change your playstyle but also your build locks many builds that need their DPS/tankiness to shine. Snipers and Mages have it easy. The rest, however, doesn't.
For me, a good "main" boss should only force you to do either a complete build overhaul or a change in how you play, not both. Changing a build takes effort (you either give devs their Orbs, or you start from scratch), and you need time to adapt your playstyle with bosses. The only exceptions to this are the extra bosses (like SG), which I consider completely fine with them. Sure, you can say: "We have 3 char slots from the get-go, use them!". That's the trap. Unless you dedicate A LOT (and I do mean A LOT) of time to your chars, they are going to be left out. Problem: not everyone has that, or wants that.

 

Precaria, I used your Angelus build for my character, but I have problems with Jade fight, too. Maybe my level is just too low (82), but I die really fast. 2 AOE hits - with his big AOE attack - and I'm dead.

 

Yeah, we defintiely have a different definition haha I rarely solo. I find it more fun to play in a party, and as an mmo, I feel the bosses SHOULD be made to be taken on as a party instead of solo.
So yeah, to clarify, Nure is easy to take on with a party.

Maybe a team of Precarias would lol

Yeah, that's what I feel the devs are going for: bosses that require teamwork to take on.

I can see how that could easily become the case, but as of right now, I don't think it has gotten to that point. Someone here pointed out it's actually better to interupt the new boss.
Brawlers come in useful in Nure too during the second stage, when Nure hits harder (meaning tanks start to struggle) and moves around, avoiding storms and getting out of sniper's range. That's when brawlers shine, stun-locking him so others can target him and to assist the tank, who should be taking much more damage now.