The rise of no-interruption bosses

Either your HP isn't yet enough, or you're in parties that tumble/flinch Jade. It is a boss that you can't simply stand there casting, you need to be constantly moving. I also die, but compared to the others not that much and as I focused my personal version to DPS, my HP is only 3k. Set your revs to 65%~, if you aggro the eggs let them flinch you intentionally when you aren't in risk and cast right after, don't recharge unless another has the aggro, and preferably if Jade is about to cast the linear aoe, that should give you enough time.

 

I have 2.4HP. It was just one or two times that I had not enough time and was catched by the linear AOE. The most time I died if he did the big circle AOE.

 

I rarely solo as well (cause laziness =P) but I try to solo whenever I can. The perfect boss, for me, should be soloable, but it would take a dang good build (like Prec mentionned) and some skills to pull it off. It should feel like a challenge that not only is doable, but also rewarding (the feeling that you get when you accomplish it that challenge; not necessarily an Xtal, that'd be greedy [but I wouldn't mind if that was a reward *nudge nudge wink wink at devs*]).

Lol having one Prec in your team is already cheating IMO. A team is just overkill!

Again, Nure is what I consider THE exception: it's the closest thing to my ideal boss. But you're right about him: Brawlers can just take care of the Outworlder Monsters while the rest is pummeling Nure down, then once it starts its freezing AoE, BAM! Interrupts in its face! There's a moment where Brawlers CAN interrupt and get away with it WITH NO CONSEQUENCES. But there's also a moment where they SHOULDN'T do that.
However, with other bosses, that isn't the case. With earlier bosses, a Brawler either is too free and interrupts willy-nilly and the boss just stands there and takes it. With most of the new bosses, he can't do anything (or he can, but he either causes problems to the team or simply himself, or he has little to no importance in the fight).
There was someone who mentioned about a specific mechanic idea:

This, IMO, is what is the best way to balance out interrupting skills, and still keep Brawlers relevant: they keep the tank (or themselves if they are tanking) from taking too much damage, and still contribute to revealing tap spots. No build should be left behind in any fight and should have their time to shine in each boss fight.

 

Yeah it should feel gratifying and all, which I feel it does when the bosses are more complicated than just hitting and dodging. When everyone in the party has a role and you can coordinate your team to beat him effectively, that's when it feels gratifying the most to me.

I think it goes back to what I said earlier. Rather than Brawlers being useless overall, it's more of some classes just being better at taking on certain bosses than others. Like Brawlers not having much of an effect in, say, PG, but being a huge help in Yelb and Nure. Supports don't have much of a role either, unless your party is horrible at surviving or you're playing with a 2 player party (a dps and a support does wonders for most bosses).

It would honestly take a lot of time and careful programming to make bosses were every class has a role, which the devs don't have or just don't care much for lol
Also, if some classes are better than others in certain bosses, it kind of forces the player to get more characters to cover their bases. More players buying character slots = more money.

 

The real problem is that the amount of bosses where Brawler is effective is seemingly dwindling update after update AND that class was already underused in the first place (unless everyone and their grandma uses a Brawler in Japan). If anything, they should have encouraged the use of Brawlers if they truly wanted to make money, because not many players have that.
And honestly, they are gaining quite a bit of money already: testers resetting their builds, good-looking Avatars... While some spent almost nothing, some have spent a lot on this game for multiple reasons. But I guess greed is always a factor, isn't it?
And finally, I do agree it takes some time to design a boss, but from there, programming it feels more natural when you have the concept (I might not be a professional, but I still program quite a bit, so I sorta know this from experience).

 

Okay so we have an argument circling on 4 bosses it seem, those bosses being:
Pillar Golem: Flinching and Tumbling makes it a Ground Pounding, rocket-propelled Gundam that will gain defense if broken. No matter how you slice it this boss is anti-flinch. It will force you to eat revs or have a longer fight if you do, making swords and knuckles unpopular for this furthering the class racism that we basically based this argument on.

Grass Dragon Yelb: A docile giant that's incredibly slow and won't hit too hard most of the time, but will wreck your shit if you don't flinch it. This was kinda like Asobimo saying I'm sorry before spitting in our faces later, cuz without a brawlers finches and guard breaks this boss is a pain in the ass.

Nurethoth: An all powerful God of the Outerworld, the God of Dolso that will make you move as if you were stuck in a void, destroy your guard, freeze you as the cold power of the Outerworld lays waste on Toram. He's neither against nor for flinch and is honestly a well made boss. Guard Breaks and Flinched from brawlers and Swords are nice as well as AOEs that swords cast to take care of the eyes, but flinches and other locks are out of the question before 50% hp in which he reflects statuses. This boss was strategically made and was challenging, still is to some.

Jade Raptor: Forestia-Astol love child that hates everyone. This guy hates flinch, made for the 2 more popular classes in game (archers and mages). Flinching is a mistake, tumbling is a mistake stunning is a mistake, being a Brawler or Swordie is a goddamn mistake. It'll punish flinchers and is a pain in the ass to hit, not to mention the Lil asshole eggs running about (buddy needs birth control). But honestly, it's not fun for flinch based classes. It requires a near similar set up to Shining Gentleman, which is a tank and a bunch of snipes and mages. To make a boss that's similar to a Mini-Boss (which should be a luxury fight for hard working players) is a fail in design. I should not need a team that was custom forged for a 1-Hit-Wonder really eating machine on a Main Story Boss. This is not Dark Souls, we don't need to have our ass wrecked so heavily on main story, instead why not make Jade Raptor do something the doesn't punish the strapping lads and lasses that have the urge to cut and punch things, e cause honestly, if we go farther back with bosses we can show bosses that have been a pain in the an us to the melee classes more than the ones who'd rather not take the aggro cuz they'd run and hide from their kinda shabby hp bar (the majority of yall anyway). Jade is a fail in design, and it leaves Mages and Archers in a bit of a "jaded" feeling while secluding the other 2 builds.

 

I kept my dagger and equipped a shield, for Jade and for future boss to come.

Nurethoth gave and offered good training, because now you can fight effectively even there are 3 other party member storming away, to be able to see / anticipate the red zone.

From my usual layer of defense: manual evade > dodge > evasion, now it is manual evade > dodge > evasion > guard.

Shield made me tougher, but I'm still an evasive tank, so ima fight bosses like how I fought them using dagger.

This still make me a pure brawler, right?

I tried this a couple of time just to check and the outcome is still the same, I'm the last one standing and killing your own ally, that doesn't make me a good tank right?

Flinch/Tumble/ Stun during during solo or insane party who gives you the go to unleash the kraken. ^_^

 

Thus again why im ballancing out my builds ( no more full tank no more full breaker no more full dps ) if a whole party uses this same aproach the boss jade raptor would be easely handled.
Instead we get ppl rushing in trying to cast there best skills...boom gone...next boom gone...next etc etc.
Its all good snipers saying lfp there but god damb add more crit id rather see 20k taken of his hp each time then zero

 

Ok so i just got to Jade Raptor. I tumbled him and it didn't do anything. He inflicts poison randomly regardless of whether you tumble him or not, and the eggs are the ones that flinch you >.>
I didn't fight it for long. Went in solo to die and tp to sofya.
Even if he is really hard, and he does do all those counters and stuff, none of that matters. It's kind of justified by the fact that Jade is an OPTIONAL BOSS. He's not a main boss. He's optional. The main "boss" in the MQ was pretty freaking easy.

 

Jades the next story boss like volg after mochello yet they released both same time.
Old times xD

 

I think you got lucky: I tumbled her (it's a she since she has babies) and she always countered.
About my poison argument, it's linked to her auto-attacks. She will sometimes run at you and strike you with her talons, often poisoning you on the second or third hit. That's where I want to tumble: to avoid that. But she counters with an AoE. I can even handle the lil' flinching jerks just fine (they are the least of my worries in that), but this I cannot tolerate (I had only pts with no real tank there and my HP is not enough to take a series of autos without having a breather to heal up with Bless).

A'ight. I think we should have a nice idea from this whole thread.
Basically, Asobimo listened to the whiners' desire for a more difficult game (I bet many of them didn't try Guild Maze) and decided to make bosses harder. They realized that punishing interrupts in some way was the best idea.
Some of us think it's actually fair and square for the most part, but is very unfriendly towards Brawlers. Others see no problems at all. While Asobimo buffs Brawlers to make them more relevant, they still aren't because:
- They're outclassed by many classes in DPS
- Compared to swordies and even Snipers, they are bad at keeping aggro
- Support Brawler? Ew!
- Breaker is only an option if the boss is kind enough to let you interrupt him or if your party is kind enough to let you autoattack only and not kick you out for it.
Only future will tell if this "no-interrupt" rule will banish Brawlers for good or not.
I thoroughly enjoyed having that discussion with everyone; removed most of my salt and helped finding some ideas to fix the brawler's disadvantage.
You can still post some opinions and such, but I'll be checking it less often, maybe even not at all.

PS: I'm honestly surprised I didn't have to bump this thread at all.

 

I flinch, tumble and stun her when everything is shrouded with storm, to troll my party sometimes when I need something to lighten my mood, and on some occasions when my koibito is asking for the support rank and I need to kill one. Lmao.

I wish to grind Goldoon. ^_^

 

I mean they could just use bless .-.

 

If everybody is doing support, only 1st aid can guarantee a support rank, thus I have to kill. Don't worry, as I said I don't do this all the time. Lmao. ^_^