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atk vs cdmg

Discussion in 'Halberd' started by Lucifer2907, Apr 17, 2019.

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  1. Lucifer2907

    Lucifer2907 Member

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    i know that this is a repeated question..but has anyone got the atk formula saved(which disappeared from forums suddenly).i have two options for build
    1.atk:3.5k
    cdmg:278%
    2.atk:4.1k
    cdmg:246%
    (all other stats are nearly equal)
     
  2. Trippyyy

    Trippyyy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not very good with the formulas or the math when it comes to toram but imo im pretty sure #2 is better. Hopefully someone can correct me if im wrong.
     
  3. Terrel

    Terrel Member

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    I think 1st option is better
     
  4. paffylon

    paffylon Member

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    i go for 2 but if your skill uses + constant damage then option 1 wins
     
  5. Mahouko

    Mahouko Well-Known Member

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    It's going to depend on what you're fighting. Low defense mob or boss and one will win, whereas very high defense mob or boss and two will win. Because of this and the fact that defenses of newly released things seem to only increase, I personally build like option two.
     
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  6. Lucifer2907

    Lucifer2907 Member

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    this is on my halb char.So mostly i will be using this char either during gemruns or against high defense bosses since dt has 100% pierce.So according to you option 2 will be better?
     
  7. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Then its definitely better

    The general calculation of damage is:
    (Atk+skill constant-def*(1-phys pierce%))*skill multiplier*other modifiers(including cdmg if crit)

    100% pierce means that Atk is much more prominent than cdmg
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  8. adil

    adil Member

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    I wanna ask. How about combo smite tag calculation. Is it counted as other modifiers??? Im making a spreadsheet on dt dmg based on equipped gear to maximize the output dmg. So need to know the calculation.
     
  9. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    It adds 50% more damage overall, so yeah you could count it as a modifier
     
  10. adil

    adil Member

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    Ok thanks (^^)b
    Btw the ele and ele% also counted as multipliers??
     
  11. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Its just a simple math, so yea it multiplies the damage further by the %. Short range/long range damage, unsheathe% also included.
     
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  12. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    I should fix this statement a lot, generally, modifiers such as cdmg, elemental, unsheathe , lrd and srd would be better the higher your pierce is. The factor isn't about pierce or cdmg, but the combination of these modifiers compared to the increase of atk. 100%pierce just puts enemy's defense aside from the calculation.

    So lets see how these two setups compare.
    First, lets turn every single stat into modifiers. Ill use the 1st setup as the base for the atk, which means 3.5k atk is considered as a modifier variable with the value of 1.
    278% critical damage means 2.78 value of modifier.
    1*2.78=2.78

    Then the 2nd setup. 4.1k atk means that the value of the atk variable is 4100/3500=about 1.17
    248% crit damage is 2.48 as a modifier
    We then multiply the 1.17 with 2.48 modifier from cdmg.
    1.17*2.48=2.9

    We can see the 2nd one have more value regardless of enemy's def since DT have 100% pierce. But its not because atk is more prominent with higher pierce. My previous statement regarding that is false. As for why cdmg pales to atk in this scenario is because you stack up too much of cdmg, deterring its value. Not because atk is better than cdmg with 100%pierce.

    Modifiers works better than atk for higher pierce most of the time, until a certain critical point where adding atk yield more return compared to stacking up modifiers. If we convert these variables into modifiers, you can see the closer the value between each modifiers, the better it is when you have the same sum of each modifiers.
    Lets say you have 2 modifiers with 1.2 and 2.0.
    1.2*2.0=2.4

    Then if you instead, have 1.6 and 1.6
    1.6*1.6=2.56

    The sum of modifiers of these two schemes are the same at 3.2 but the second one yield better result. As such stacking one type of stat isn't the best of an idea. Its better to get a more balanced variables. I may be necroposting but I feel that its important to fix this mistake of mine. And I apologize for the misconception that people may take from my prev statement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  13. adil

    adil Member

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    based on your question option 2 wins. since dt has 100% pierce the effect of multipliers is greater to the increase of attack itself.
    to sort in priority: ele/ele%>srd>cd>attck
    these multipliers actually works the same for output dmge calculation but since cd is easier to obtain through the growth of str which 290str would give 2.08 multiplier without equipping any gears, it is suggested to get the other 2 multiplier 1st then followed by cd.
    but this only works untill a breakeven point which if u stack too much of the same thing it would lower the dmge output insted of increasing it. so prioritize the mutiplier 1st then balance it with attck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  14. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Actually, option 2 have more atk than option 1. With 32% less cdmg, this is a scenario where atk increase prevails over cdmg, which is an odd case for a 100% pierce. The 600 atk difference worth more than the 32%cdmg. And stacking one variable doesn't decrease the damage, its just that it got diminishing return which makes the damage increment smaller and smaller.
     
  15. adil

    adil Member

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    sry my bad. I typed the wrong option. Actually option 1 with lower attck and higher cd have higher output dmg. And what i meant by decreasing the dmg is not the dmg would become smaller from before. Its just the effect of the same stacked multiplier would give less effect on the final output.

    *Did a double check. Option 2 still win lol. XD
    Agreed in this case the 600 attck is worth more than the 32% cd multiplier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020

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