confused about HIT vs FLEE

so with "Attack accuracy=100-(mob's dodge value-player's hit value)/3+MP cost of skill/10" taken as my general conception of calculating my hit... and while i'm not really good at math and i'm not gonna bother calculating the actual value of this formula cause i don't care.... but the issue i have is that i realized when looking at the "foresight" skill of assassins that it raises your minimum accuracy to 15% and your maximum dodge to 85%...

so considering a player needs a skill to raise those caps, then wouldn't it be accurate to say the FLEE rate values i've been seeing on videos and spreadsheets and stuff are all wrong as they don't take in consideration that FLEE caps out lower than 85% for something without a max foresight passive?

what i mean to ask is that.... isn't it unreasonable to substract FLEE from HIT to calculate your final chance to HIT or FLEE without individually adjusting the worth of each value first? as apparently with foresight mob HIT would start at 15% and player dodge would end at 85%?

 

your formula is for player attacks while Foresight only affects enemy attacks, not your own. these things are not related.

monster's flee stats shown in videos are just the input value for the hit rate calculation formula, not the actual dodge rate.

minimum accuracy and maximum dodge rate are effectively the same, just from a different perspective.
if the result of the hit rate calculation is lower than the minimum accuracy, the minimum accuracy will be applied instead.

 

i understand that foresight is applied to the player, but i'm saying foresight says maximum dodge is 85%.... so how is it accurate to make a calculation for player HIT deducting it from enemy FLEE if the values are like deducting y from x... it is not mathematically possible to deduct y from x....

 

also for reference.... if i'm hitting ornlarf with 0 hit, i will absolutely never hit the guy..... maybe i'll hit him once after 30 minutes.... this does not make sense if minimum HIT is 10% and maximum dodge is 80%... like for reference to this.... the odds at a casino are lower than 10% and you win more games than you'd hit ornlarf.

 

3y – 2xy = x y if i take this formula for example.... and spell it out 3 * 1 * y - 2 * 1 * x * 1 * y = 1 * x * 1 * y

at the end the answer is still a formula and not an actual answer so there's no way i can say it's a percentage if i have two values basically facing each other like it's an answer... when it's not... it's still a formula.... just the simplified version of the starting formula... it is not an answer.

 

btw this is called "differentiating" or something.... but it's not actually substracting anything.

 

Foresight has absolutely no effect on player hit rate.

monsters have a minimum hit rate of 25%, therefore players' maximum dodge rate is 75%. these are not individual stats, it's the same thing.
Foresight reduces monsters' minimum hit rate, therefore the player's maximum dodge rate increases accordingly.

players' minimum hit rate ranges from 5% to 30% depending on their weapon type.

hit rate calculation basically subtracts the flee stat from the hit stat (the actual formula is a little more complex) and converts the result into the hit chance.
results above 100% will be set back to 100%. if the result is lower than the minimum hit rate, the minimum hit rate will be applied instead and it turns into a grazed hit (stability will be halved).

regarding Ornlaf, if your hit rate check is successful the attack can still be evaded (unless it's magic). evasion rate is a different mechanic that is only related to hit rate in that it requires the attack to hit in order to do an evasion check.
you can counter evasion with anticipate.

 

dodge and hit are not the same thing though... one comes from dex the other from agi how are they the same thing?

 

cause you like literally say minimum is 25% so maximum is automatically 75% but then you say numbers above 100% get reduced back to 100%?
that's not making sense to me.. at all...

 

minimum hit rate <=> maximum dodge rate
not related to dex, agi, or any other stat

100% hit rate = guaranteed hit
even if it is mathematically possible to exceed 100% the result won't change.
consequently dodge rate would be 0% for this.


a - b = c
two things become one thing.
on the left side we have the hit and flee stats, on the right side there is only one. the chance to hit or miss.

 

yeah so this whole thing started with me saying it's not mathematically possible to subtract a from b, yet here we are and you say it is... but i guarantee you... it's not... subtracting a from b is only possible in things like economy, not mathematics.... and in economy this "c" you mention would have a nominater unsimilar to a or b, hence why it is called c... but you subtract a from b and say = c but you basically call a or b... c... which makes zero sense.


if for example a = cost of material and b = cost of labor then a subtraction would give c = profit
in an economical sense this makes sense....

but in a mathematical sense a = value and b = absolutely not even remotely close to being the same "type" of value so c = can not be substraction of a and b.

 

so if we're saying that what you're saying is true, then you're giving an economical perspective on hit vs flee and that means that the final value you get is a "profit" and that profit weighs against maximum dodge it's not automatically your chance to hit.

 

...
...
...Is it really that hard to understand?

Just throw all the complicated economic bs away and think simply.
"Minimum hit rate" > mob's minimum hit rate > the "minimum chance for the mob to hit the player"
"Maximum dodge rate" > player's maximum dodge rate > the "maximum chance for the player to dodge the mob's attack"
Let's say the mob's minimum hit rate is 15%, it means the mob has at least 15% chance to hit the player, which in turn also means the mob has at most 85% chance to miss the player. Switch the latter to the player's perspective, it'll also means the player has at most 85% chance to dodge the mob's attack, which can also mean "the player's maximum dodge rate is 85%".
It's that simple.

Edit: I mistook the "player" and "mob" part, forgot that this was about Foresight, so I edited it.

 

everything is mathematically possible, except dividing by 0.

it is.

i certainly don't. you do.

and now you're just making up stuff.

i tried to avoid using mathematical definitions since this seems to be a difficult subject to you, which is understandable, but if you can't even handle the basic arithmetic operations i have nothing to explain to you.

 

So I re-read the whole thing and turned out that you misread the skill description, which led to the whole charade.

What is said in the skill is ENEMY'S MINIMUM ACCURACY, NOT YOURS. I don't know how were you able to misread that.
And that accuracy formula is to calculate the player's chance to hit the mob/miniboss/boss.
And this skill is about enemy's chance to hit the player.
And no, nothing is unreasonable here. The devs simply chose this as the way shit works in Toram, that's all. Instead of some galaxy-brain fraction and logarithmic and other overly complicated stuff to calculate like many other games, Toram devs chose to just do some simple addition and substraction like those. Which, unfortunately, is why Accuracy & Dodge are considered useless stats by many players, because this kind of formula makes it very easy to reach the 0% and 100% marks or even exceed them.

It is "not mathematically possible" because you misunderstood the whole thing from the start, and also because of your

claim.
Like, for real? How bad at math could someone be to be able to say such thing? Bro they're variables that are related to each other and are put in the same formula. They're deducing a number from another number directly related to it, not deducing an apple from relativity theory.

Such irony when you claimed to be "not good at math" yet attempted to complicate everything up just to make them worse for no good reason by yourself.

Seriously bro you need to check your comprehending ability first.
Of course "dodge" and "hit" can't be the same thing if you just say them like that while throwing every context out of the window.
If it's your dodge and your hit, obviously they're not the same.
If it's your chance to dodge and enemy's chance to hit, that's a different story. Though I already explained that in my other comment so I won't repeat all that here.
And of couse those 25% 75% 100% thing doesn't make sense also for the same reason - you threw every context out of the window.
The min 25% max 75% thing is about enemy's minimum chance to hit and your maximum chance to dodge. Same as before, I already explained that in my other comment so I won't repeat all that here.
For the 100% thing, chance being 100% already means it's guaranteed to happen. Bigger percentage on that doesn't make any difference so they just make 100% as a hard cap.

 

The remaining replies are just you uselessly complicating shet up even further and they're what I replied first so I'll just stop here.
Ngl this whole thing is making me feel like you got negative score in math, not just low or zero.

 

alright maybe i did not explain properly what i meant by: "i'm not good at math".... what i meant is that i'm not good at YOUR math, cause it's WRONG.

so here's the issue.... i know 1 + 1 = 2.... so i know this much math...

i also know a + b = c ...... but this is economical math, still some sort of math, but not all that mathy

and here i am once again telling you that in mathematical math like the mathy math stuff...... a + b = ab

so if anything it is I that doesn't understand how you doesn't understand that ab is a differentiation and not an answer.

differentiate
dĭf″ə-rĕn′shē-āt″
intransitive verb

1. To constitute the distinction between.
2. To perceive or show the difference in or between; discriminate.
3. To make different by alteration or modification.

also i don't understand why everybody thinks i'm misunderstanding my stats from the enemy stats or that i misunderstand foresight... lol cause i absolutely don't, you just think i do....

My chance to hit is OBVIOUSLY mine and my chance to dodge is OBVIOUSLY mine.... and the enemy's is OBVIOUSLY theirs....

the only reason i referenced foresight is because it explicitly implies there is a minimum HIT and maximum dodge, i don't care if it says player or enemy on foresight because it is NOT RELEVANT.

foresight simply states the fact of the existence of this minimum and maximum.....

and from that deduction i'm saying that calculating your own chance to HIT against something that has a maximum DODGE of UNDER 100% is ABSOLUTELY NOT so simple as subtracting your hit from their dodge... because that "supposed" hit value you're giving with your strange math ways is a HIT rate based on 100% chance to hit... AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING...

 

rather than "wrong" it would be "inaccurate", since the actual formula also compares player level and monster level, mp consumption, inherent skill accuracy modifiers and scaling. but since you already struggle with a simple subtraction we don't have to consider the other details yet.

congrats. you are one step closer to getting this right.

this is abstract theoretical math. the purest form of math. can't get any mathier than this.
no economics. we are not talking about spina generation and movement.

no. just no.
as a logical operation "ab" means " a and b"
as an arithmetic operation "ab" means "a * b" (a multiplied b)
and as a relative operation "ab" means "a followed by b"

a differentiation can also be an answer

Subtraction (-): minuent - subtrahent = difference

it is very relevant, because Foresight only changes the enemies stat, not yours.
dodge rate is just hit rate inverted. that is called a complement.
your dodge rate is the complement of the enemies hit rate. the very same element, just presented in a different form.

we already discussed this before:

no shit, sherlock.
remember how rates are given as % ?

% = per cent = of one hundred -> a limited range of positive numbers between 0 and 100

limited = closed off by boundaries in one or more directions
lower limit = minimum
upper limit = maximum

because:

 

Sorry im not good at complicated stuff, but I think this part is the problematic part.

Chance to Hit is determined after calculating both side HIT and FLEE.

Lets Say we have status
(Player) HIT: 100
(Enemy) FLEE: 50
Meaning our chance to land a hit is 100 - 50 : 50% (simplification, not the actual formula)

HIT in our screen does not represent our chace at hitting like other RPG games where they usually use HIT as actual chance to hit.

Foresight only change the maximum limit % on getting hit by an attack. The default is 75% -> 85% and the skill does not change the amount of HIT or FLEE.

edit: My brain fried before making to foresight... Please keep it simple.

 

ok look if my hit is 100 and enemy flee is 50, then chance to hit is 50% (you said it, i agree, well i don't, but not yet, because this calculation is fine but after all is said and done it stops being fine)

well it's not (AND AS POINT OF REFERENCE IM INSERTING FORESIGHT)

and now INVERT CONTEXT OF THE FIRST SAID TO:

IF ENEMY HIT is 100 and PLAYER DODGE IS 50 then ENEMY HIT is 50%

This does not make sense if FORESIGHT SAYS MAX DODGE IS 85%

how can you accurately say you have a 50% chance to hit something with 85% chance to dodge ???

all you ARE saying is that YOU HAVE 50% HIT and THEY HAVE 85% DODGE ... YOU'RE NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION... LOL

differentiations are accepted as answers on questions that ask you to DIFFERENTIATE, they are NOT answers if the question asks for an ANSWER.

now STOP looking at foresight like it says enemy this player that, that's NOT the point.... the point is foresight puts a CAP on dodge at 85% (player enemy I don't care imagine if it said the opposite) and a CAP on HIT (player enemy, who cares, not relevant)

the FACT of the matter IS that these CAPS EXIST, and WHEN they DO you can NOT SAY 100-50 = 50%, because EACH value has a CAP BELOW 100 and does NOT start at 0.