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Why is everyone getting critical spear?

Discussion in 'Halberd' started by Komibii, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Komibii

    Komibii [TITLE] Elite Member

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    I haven't payed close attention to the skills people have been using in their halberd build videos for a while, mostly since I already know how most of the skills work and know which ones to get. A certain YouTuber, which I won't single out, made a halberd video today and I actually decided to look at their skill distribution. I noticed that they had critical spear at level 10 and said that you "have" to get that skill. I pointed out that critical spear isn't the best skill to get when you don't even have hp boost or at least dive impact at level 1, and my comment got disliked so hard it got pushed to the bottom. I went and watched some videos that are a few months older, and I learned that pretty much every halberd build had critical spear.

    Are we actually at the point where people care so little about their survivability that they can't even at least spend 1 point on an i-frame skill because their crit rate will be 1% lower since critical spear would only be at level 9?
     
  2. Insane23

    Insane23 Well-Known Member

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    I never picked it on my halberd before so I could just use halberd mastery sg at its full efficiency, but critical spear has its uses for reaching crit benchmarks, be it just 100 for older bosses or 125 for resist bosses. About getting hp boost over it, I guess most disagree based on how most halberd builds have kakiri and gsw, so more ~1500 won't really do anything when under those skills, but not picking dive impact actually makes no sense, since this kind of playastyle requires you to avoid damage at all costs
     
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  3. The Lost One

    The Lost One THOT BEGONE AGENT Elite Member

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    Why not, extra crit helps specially on crit resistant bosses. Hp boost is debatable since people often use GSW on their halberd now with karaikiri is like adding skill points that won't do much as to how glassy you'll become because of those skills.

    Only an idiot won't take dive impact that's for sure if halberd players like to do melee range attacks but unnecessary I guess for halberd that always do damage from 8m or more with their DT.
     
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  4. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

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    Good question, DT doesn't need much crit so that is a valid reason to ignore critical spear.

    But, in terms of the OP boost that daggers get from Halb's they have been boosting their crit. As Gatling knife with double stab / amazing throw can do 2.5m+ damage.

    Which, pisses me off. I think that dagger damage should be calculated based on the dagger's attack, not the main weapon attack.

    But anyway, that is my only rationale for why they might suggest crit. But they didn't need to downvote you, thats a small pp move
     
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  5. Lil☆Neko

    Lil☆Neko Well-Known Member

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    As a halberd (STR>AGI BS) user myself, i'm decked out with full crit gear. I enjoy having 100+% crit (and i do use critical spear) mainly because i want to be able to use dagger skills from a distance (gsw is dangerous), and for AMPR. Decoy is probably still one of the most important skills ever in Toram, and ever since they actually made Decoy not recover MP when its attack missed, Crit rate has always been beneficial to decoy reliant classes.
     
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  6. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Your dagger atk does affect gattling knife damage
     
  7. Phoenix。

    Phoenix。 Well-Known Member

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    Hmh depending on your gear you would want critical spear for crit resist bosses. Especially with backstab/gatling as 2nd dps you wouldn't wanna rely on the 75 crit from Dt. Sure the 1 SP in Dive Impact is a must but I probably didn't use Dive Impact in a few weeks since we have shadow walk now. Right now I am also not picking critical spear because I rather use hell reaper than player statted gear to reach 130 crit.

    To a very small extent
     
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  8. HoboOnline

    HoboOnline Well-Known Member

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    Barely, the difference in minor. But in my opinion, dagger atk should be the only value considered.
     
  9. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    Your armor and rings can increase your atk, if that even make any sense. Getting stats just by holding the weapon should be pretty much the same with mmorpg logic.

    If we want to push it with a more realistical outlook, while you use the daggers you're still wielding your main weapon, a good weapon offers better handling that could help you in handling your daggers. I know it's a bit of a stretch but you can use it.

    Should dagger atk be the only thing that affects the damage? Nah we have all these cdmg, srd, atk% mumbo jumbo. You'd need to scrap the whole thing if you were to make that argument to scrap weapon atk value for main weapon. Just being able to affect the skill damage in formula should be enough. I do agree that it could have more effect just like how arrows element affect the damage. Or do you want to separate all those stuff as well, or at least, make a separate weapon atk calculation to your base damage? You technically can, but dagger is not a main weapon, it's similar to how shield cannon works, actually. You still get the weapon atk value from your main weapon, but in SCannon case, the refinement affects the multipier. The dagger giving some skill constant for each hits seems logical to me, as far as how the general formula in toram works.

    In the damage formula, the value is not actually not that much of a difference compared to how arrows increase bow users atk stat. The dagger adds flat amount directly as the skill constant per hit. Meaning a 16x gattling knife with amazing throw adds 150 extra atk each hits, 150*16=2400 worth of base atk. Pretty decent I'd say. Of course this additional value is not the same as a direct atk stat increase with how the damage formula works, as the calculation is done for each hits. So its not like you added 2400 skill constant directly to your base damage. You'd have to calculate each of the hits separately. To calculate them you'd need to do two part calculation, the first part being calculating the additional skill constant relative to your atk stat before the addition of the dagger, then do the atk-def calculation as per usual. After than you take that value as a modifier*16. Its much less effective for higher defense enemies but for low def ones the aggregate of 2400 skill constant value should be pretty big. Without amazing throw, it's still 1200 worth of skill constants.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  10. VangNir

    VangNir Well-Known Member

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    Assassin's dmg only depends on dagger? That will be fair if you can refine dagger.
    So the calculation will be affected by main weapon refine and dagger refine.
     
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  11. Yunan

    Yunan Not Enough Salt Elite Member

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    By solely depends on your dagger it means you have to scrap the weapon atk value from your main weapon. If dagger is refine able, then it should be fair do do so. Actually it would all be fine if dagger could be used as a main weapon.
     
  12. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    Most player emulate those flawless youtube video, whilst in reality it's hilarious that one wrong move and they end up dying.

    Another skill/sub/game flaws. Blind devotion of the masses. ^_^
     
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