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Damage Dropoff Analysis

Discussion in 'Toram Online Game Guides' started by Kanameru, Jul 31, 2015.

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  1. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Please do note that I am not used to posting guides and the like, so the formatting and content and, well... Everything... May be hard to follow. If you do find that is the case or have some other suggestions, please give me some advice to help make this more clear.

    Well, with that little intro done, here's what I have to share:

    Damage dropoff is a thing.
    You know that tip that says you have you have a chance to lessen your damage if you repeat the same attack? It's true and it's not a chance. It's definite until you hit the cap of damage reduction which is 50% of the initial damage (or half, if you prefer it be called that way). So basically... If you really want to hurt a monster, avoid spamming the same kind of attack on it over and over and over again. This rule applies to normal attacks, as well.

    Damage dropoff works in reverse.
    If you initiate with a skill and normal attack, you may notice the normal attack does more damage than if you had initiated with the normal attack. This is because, in the same way damage falls off with each hit of the same type until your damage is halved, the damage of other types of attacks increases with each hit until they are capped at 250% of their initial damage.

    An attack must hit for damage dropoff to apply.
    This is a bit wonky and inconsistent, so there may be details of it that I've missed, but it seems that any attacks that miss the opponent do not count towards damage reduction. Neither attacks that are evaded nor ones that miss are counted towards damage dropoff. Most likely the inconsistency I've noticed is from something like attacks that are cancelled still count towards damage dropoff, even if they deal no damage or something like that. I'll have to test more later.

    Multi-hit attacks only count towards damage dropoff once.
    They're calculated as a single point of damage, so it makes sense that they count as a single attack for this mechanic, as well. Even Magic: Arrows counts as one attack. It seems additional attacks from the knuckle and dagger skills do not count, either.

    Damage types are separated into normal attacks, skills, and spells.
    The categories are technically "Normal Attacks," "Physical Damage Skills," and "Magical Damage Skills," but I will just use "Normal Attacks," "Skills" (physical), and "Spells" or "Magic" (magical). Normal attacking (green timer bar) a monster increases the power of subsequent skills (red timer bar/instant) and spells (yellow timer bar) on the same target while decreasing the power of subsequent normal attacks. The same applies to skills and spells if you just flip a few words around. The evasion attack performed when daggers are equipped counts as a normal attack.

    The rate of damage dropoff is a percentage of the base damage that varies depending on what monster you're fighting.
    Say you normal attack a monster once to initiate. That damage is the initial normal attack damage. If you normal attack the monster a second time, the damage dealt will decrease by some percent of the initial damage depending on what monster you're fighting. For example, Purple Jellies will take half damage on the second hit when normal attacked twice in a row and so have a 50% damage dropoff ratio for normal attacks. However, if you use three skills on a Purple Jelly then normal attack it, you will deal 250% of the base normal attack damage. (100% base +50% each skill, so +150% = 250%)

    Damage dropoff ratios are separate for normal attacks, skills, and spells.
    Some monsters have a 1% ratio for the damage dropoff of normal attacks and a 50% ratio for the damage dropoff of skills and a 20% ratio for the damage dropoff of spells. Some have a 50% ratio for normal attacks, skills, and spells. This means that even if you deal half damage with your second normal attack in a row, that doesn't necessarily mean using two skills in a row will deal half damage with the second skill.

    Damage Dropoff is Per-Monster, Not Per-Player.*
    If you're in a party, and one of your party members casts Magic: Arrows on a monster and you decide to use, say, Hard Hit on the same monster, your Hard Hit will deal more damage (unless the monster has a 0% physical ratio). Similarly, if you normal attack one monster, normal attacking another monster won't deal reduced damage.

    *May not actually be true; will have to re-test.

    Quick Recap/TL;DR
    - Repeating the same type of attack will reduce the damage.
    - Using one type of attack boosts the damage of other types of attacks.
    - Multi-hit attacks only count as one attack for this mechanic.
    - The evasion attack performed when a dagger is equipped counts as a normal attack.
    - Damage types are categorized as normal attacks, physical skills, and magic skills (normal, skill, magic/spell).
    - Damage dropoff rates vary per-type depending on what type of monster you're fighting.
    - Damage dropoff applies per-monster, not per-player.
    - Damage increase from this caps off at 250%.
    - Damage reduction from this caps off at 50%.

    List of Damage Dropoff Ratios for Various Monster Types:
    Note: Some values may be a bit off because of the random damage. (I avoid this by equipping Cat Paws, which has 100% stability, for normal attacks and skills, but it's impossible for magic).
    N = Normal Attack, P = Physical (Skills), M = Magical

    Normal Monsters:
    Beak - 50% N | 25% P | 1% M
    Blue Jelly (Normal Size) - 50% N | 100% P | 1% M
    Blue Jelly (Large) - 50% N | 100% P | 1% M
    Boar - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Calron - 25% N | 20% P | 5% M
    Cobre - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Colon - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Conoppy - 1% N | 20% P | 30% M
    Corda - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Coryn - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Crow Killer - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Death Hound - 100% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Devil's Book - 1% N | 25% P | 20% M
    Elizard - 10% N | 10% P | 15% M
    Farfalla - 50% N | 1% P | 100% M
    Fire Ghost - 10% N | 20% P | 30% M
    Flame Butterfly - 1% N | 15% P | 15% M
    Frosch - 20% N | 1% P | 1% M
    Ghost - 0% N | 0% P | 50% M
    Goblin (Red Bandana) - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Goblin (Sword) - 15% N | 15% P | 1% M
    Goblin (Slingshot) - 1% N | 1% P | 30% M
    Goblin (Black Bandana) - 25% N | 50% P | 100% M
    Green Jelly - 25% N | 50% P | 5% M
    Gold Jelly - 100% N | 0% P | 100% M
    Guardian Statue - 25% N | 25% P | 20% M
    Helm Colon - 1% N | 50% P | 25% M
    Hound - 10% N | 50% P | 1% M
    Kijimu (Green) - 1% N | 20% P | 20% M
    Kijimu (Red) - 1% N | 20% P | 20% M
    Lavarca - 1% N | 50% P | 25% M
    Little Boar - 10% N | 25% P | 25% M
    Miwi - 30% N | 20% N | 10% M
    Nemico - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Night Mushroom - 5% N | 25% P | 50% M
    Pain Leaf - 50% N | 5% P | 25% M
    Pico - 1% N | 25% P | 50% M
    Piedra - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Pomum - 50% N | 1% P | 1% M
    Purple Jelly - 50% N | 25% P | 1% M
    Raffy - 25% N | 15% P | 20% M
    Red Jelly - 50% N | 1% P | 30% M
    Rio Frosch - 20% N | 1% P | 1% M
    Roar - 50% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Roca - 50% N | 1% P | 50% M
    Ruin Rat - 10% N | 5% P | 1% M
    Rutin - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Rutiro - 10% N | 20% P | 5% M
    Savaran - 5% N | 15% P | 15% M
    Shell Mask - 20% N | 10% P | 30% M
    Skeleton - 5% N | 10% P | 15% M
    Slime - 5% N | 5% P | 5% M
    Soldier Rat - 1% N | 10% P | 5% M
    Squire - 15% N | 100% P | 25% M
    Stone - 50% N | 1% P | 25% M
    Stone Knight - 50% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Stone Soldier - 25% N | 25% P | 20% M
    Torpo - 25% N | 20% P | 15% M
    Tower Ghost - 0% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Turquoise Lionfish - 5% N | 15% P | 10% M
    Vanilla Potum - 1% N | 25% P | 30% M
    Voda Roar - 50% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Wind Roar - 50% N | 25% P | 25% M
    Wooly - 50% N | 25% P | 25% M
    Yorl Goat - 30% N | 10% P | 1% M

    Field Bosses:
    Big Coryn - 1% N | 1% P | 1% M
    Colon Commander - 20% N | 10% P | 25% M
    Crimsosch - 100% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Dark Mushroom - 5% N | 25% P | 50% M
    Giant Boar - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Golden Skeleton - 50% N | 1% P | 1% M
    King Potum - 25% N | 25% P | 25% M
    Miracle Potum - 50% N | 25% P | 50% M
    Seltirio - 0% N | 50% P | 30% M
    Silver Coryn - ???
    Silver Roar - 100% N | 100% P | 100% M
    Stone Mercenary - 1% N | 50% P | 50% M
    Tortuga - 1% N | 1% P | 1% M

    Bosses:
    Boss Colon - 10% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Excavated Golem - 5% N | 15% P | 15% M
    Gespenst - 10% N | 25% P | 10% M
    Eerie Crystal - 10% N | 5% P | 10% M
    Forest Wolf - 5% N | 20% P | 20% M
    Minotaur - 20% N | 25% P | 20% M
    Brutal Dragon Decel - 25% N | 15% P | 15% M
    Boss Goblin - 20% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Mochelo - 100% N | 100% P | 10% M
    Flare Volg - 1% N | 25% P | 50% M
    Forestia - 15% N | 10% P | 10% M
    Ruin Golem - 15% N | 15% P | 15% M
    Astol - 10% N | 10% P | 25% M
    Ooze - 5% N | 5% P | 10% M

    Annoying:
    Venom/Slow/Paralysis Crystal - 1% N | 1% P | 1% M

    Edit:
    The mechanic is apparently called "Proration." Which is a horribly unwieldy word, so I'll just use "Damage Dropoff" for now. ^ ^; Talk to the Adventurer in the corner of the Library and ask about Proration for less information than I have just given you.

    Simulator:
    Here's something I found that's really cool and really clarifies how the system works to those who may still be a bit lost. From left to right, the damage types are Normal, Physical, and Magical. The button on the very bottom resets the ratios to 100%.
    Simulator Here
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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  2. Tim Riggins

    Tim Riggins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting this data.

    Probably the mob where I have noticed this most is on Flare Volg. Playing as a mage, I noticed this when using the same attacks repeatedly where it seems to be the 50% drop off you mention. The initial spells seems to do the 250% bonus damage hitting for 2-4k and then dropping down to 500-1k when he is at 25% life.
     
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  3. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm... The way you describe it seems a bit off, since initiating with a spell should do base damage, not 250%. Unless you hit it a few times with, say, normal attacks and then cast spells? Also that's kind of interesting... Ah. The reduced damage later on may be from continuously spamming spells at the boss instead of normal attacking it or using skills from other branches like Power Shot or Throwing Knife or Holy Fist or whatever.

    Also thank you for appreciating my info and thanking me... Hmmm... That's a bit awkward to be saying. ^ ^;
     
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  4. SimplySublime

    SimplySublime New Member

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    Thank you for this post, very helpful. I am new to the game.
     
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  5. screamingfox

    screamingfox Well-Known Member

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    I think you should question on if he was in a party or not. It would make sense if he's in a party and is not the initiator in the fight.
     
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  6. xLd

    xLd Well-Known Member

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    NICE I was waiting for this post since beta began! Btw how did you get those numbers? Did you use a weapon with 100% stability?
     
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  7. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I used Cat Paws. For magic, it's impossible to get 100% stability, but since I knew about the way damage falloff worked already, I could estimate. The general flow goes like this:
    (for normal attacks)
    Equip Cat Paws and punch mob twice or more; take the average of the difference between the damage of each strike (44, 42, 41 would get ((44-42)+(42-41))/2 = (2+1)/2 = 3/2 = 1.5) and then divide that by one percent of the initial damage (so the same example would get 1.5/(44/100) = 1.5/0.44 = 6.82 approximately). Since the damage scales the same amount in reverse, I sometimes also use a skill before normal attacking to get those numbers if the numbers from just the damage dropoff is unclear. It usually isn't because Cat Paws and 100% balance, but...

    (for skills)
    Equip Cat Paws and use Smash on a mob once or more in a row. Do the same calculation as with normal attacks. If I need more numbers, I can normal attack the mob a few times before using Smash. Theoretically, any skill should work for this, but then you'd have to take weapon balance into consideration. I also only have Smash from the Martial tree on the character I'm using to test, so... If anyone else wants to try with other skills, that'd be cool.

    (for magic)
    Equip Cat Paws (no idea if it affects magic balance, but why not?) and cast Arrows at a mob. Since my mage tends to do a lot of damage, it's harder to cast Arrows on a mob multiple times. So instead I pick another mob of the same type and punch it once before casting Arrows again. If I need more data to make it clear (especially because of the fact that magic doesn't do this 100% balance thing), I can punch the mob a few more times before casting Arrows.

    In general, it's pretty simple. The 100% stability helps with testing, especially because I started testing against goblins, which have a 1% ratio... So with any other weapon the numbers would've been too all-over-the-place. ^ ^; Even without it, though, with knowledge of how the system works and a reasonably well-balanced weapon, you could probably test with anything. Well, I guess the 1% ratios would be hard to pick up, especially compared to 5% at lower amounts of damage... But yeah that's the general idea. Use the same type of attack consecutively on some mob and mess with the numbers a bit.
     
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  8. Nedai

    Nedai Well-Known Member

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    This is some valuable data right here! Can't believe you had time to analyze this, but I'm glad you did! I have a dps mage and maximizing damage will hopefully be easier with this post. Thanks!
     
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  9. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Well, I hit level cap with my main. What else am I going to do? xD Although, once I had it figured out after punching goblins and then savarans for a while and crunching numbers... It really didn't take long for the rest to fall in place. Glad you found it useful. That's why I posted it, in the first place. ^.^
     
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  10. xLd

    xLd Well-Known Member

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    Wow thanks! Hope everyone read this post so they can create a good party and not MAGE ONLY PARTY. lol
     
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  11. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Well, even mages should benefit from this a lot. A party of mages who know how to maximize their damage would be... Just a bit more insane (DPS-wise) than your average "MAGE ONLY PARTY." ^ ^;
     
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  12. xLd

    xLd Well-Known Member

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    But but but they will do same type of attack which is magic... XD
     
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  13. Xejso<3

    Xejso<3 Active Member

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    I always wondered how smash from the battle skill tree(you have an extremely low chance of increasing the damage of the last physical damage dealt) effects this
     
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  14. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    You mean Smash from the Martial skill tree? It... Follows all the rules completely? ._. It's what I've been using to test. I don't know what you mean by "you have an extremely low chance of increasing the damage of the last physical damage dealt"... Do you mean that by using Smash, your next physical attack might deal extra damage? The last physical attack you do(?) might deal extra damage? Or... What, exactly? As far as I know, Smash just does damage and has a chance to flinch...
     
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  15. Xejso<3

    Xejso<3 Active Member

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    Look in the battle skill tree. Idk why they named these 2 skills the same name but this one is a passive
     
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  16. Kanameru

    Kanameru Well-Known Member

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    Ah... I don't have the skill. If you have it, could you do some testing? That'd be something cool to know.
     
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  17. Xejso<3

    Xejso<3 Active Member

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    This is the one I'm referring to.. There is also a magic version too


    but I'm usually no good at testing these types of things
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. xLd

    xLd Well-Known Member

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    Tried this during alpha. It increases normal attacks randomly but the chance is really really low. Reminds me i should try that skill again :D
     
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  19. Alleura

    Alleura Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your information,
    Anyway, Is the Damage Dropoff affect for whole party member? or just affect Individual member damage?
     
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  20. xLd

    xLd Well-Known Member

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    Affects the whole party
     
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