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Solutions to Mage's issues with speed

Discussion in 'Toram Online General Discussions' started by Takata, Mar 29, 2023.

  1. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    Super fast at maximum speed? You're just making your own rule. Smh. Ofc, they should be slower than melee. Attack which is usually instantaneous is clearly different from casting. ^_^
     
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  2. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    I don't make the rules, its only logical that if you are a master at any kind of movement you should be equally fast at all kinds of movements regardless of the type of movements, therefore mages especially ones who have mastered their arts should be just as fast as their ranged/melee peers without any exceptions, at this point you just want mages to remain absolutely inferior combatwise to their ranged/melee peers lol, in combat the one who hits first will always win it doesn't matter how much protective equipments the opponent is using wearing especially if the one who hits the opponent first performed a guaranteed killing attack on them!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
  3. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    Mages aren't an inferior class to begin with. Granting them the ultra speed you wish for will tip the balance of the game.

    Try playing high difficulty high level bosses battles, because from the narrative you're saying, you guys are like gunslinger for a fast draw, like wild west, one hit kill. ^_^
     
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  4. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    And spellcasting can be instantaneous, chantless magic has been portrayed in animes and movies, so there is no reason that it cannot be added to toram mages, chantless magic is what i refered to as true mastery of magic, because it is instant and doesn't require any incantations
     
  5. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    They are infinitely inferior to physical weapons Especially in combat, there is no logical justification for them to be much slower than their physical peers who would easily kill the mages instantly before they can do a fancy twirling motion
    also here is my explanation about how chantless magic is the instantaneous magic i was talking about to actually make mages practical in combat!
     
  6. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    Ok, let's try anime or movie. How many chantless mages have you seen there?

    Now, imagine Sofya City filled with chantless mages, running around, even the new players who just found the game, starting with chantless magic.

    I think this chantless magic should be granted to very high level mages, still not atm. ^_^
     
  7. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    I have already expressed the idea of chantless magic being available only at high levels which is 200 at the minimum and need 5,000 cspd along with mastery of all magical skill trees with each skills within them needing to be level 10, did you even read all the previous discussions? Its already been discussed!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
  8. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    This is the norm.

    This scenario is like pvp, might be true for a mage without a strategy, just straight up hack and slash vs long cast magic. ^_^
     
  9. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    I disagree. Should be atleast level 300. ^_^
     
  10. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    Plenty of mages in anime have chantless magic, such as rudeus, anos voldigoad, rimuru, and so on, if they could do it, then mages from toram especially those that have truly mastered magic should be allowed the capability to do the same!!
     
  11. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    200 was an example, but i think 250 to 300 could be a good minimum to set for a mage that has truly mastered magic and should be capable of chantless instant cast magical spellcasting!
     
  12. RyeUshio

    RyeUshio The Blue Bull Super Likable Elite Member Epic Member

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    Yes, my point is low level mages shouldn't have this.

    Level 300 it is. It's like on gsw without the negative of being 1 shot. ^_^
     
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  13. Takata

    Takata Active Member

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    Yep we are in agreement then, chantless instant magic is for high level mages only, and 300 it is, and thats right its essentially like gsw but without the negative of being 1 shot!!
     
  14. Ceeyane

    Ceeyane Member

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    I am using mage for years now and tried different builds and stuffs, i would mostly agreed on buffing up INT-DEX playstyle, compared to its critical counterpart, critical-less mages suffers from the High Cycle thingy, it sucks that we rely on fragile skills to be capable and spending more skill points and money for a High-Cycle-less build will also make you sacrifice a good amount of your damage and other stats, in this fast-paced game, all high killer meta builds will just dominate and build like this will just become irrelevant for people that seeks cheaper, but powerful builds. I do agree with INT-DEX specifically not needing GSW, not only that magic skills have long animations, but having another stat to take care off just sucks, even if the buffs you guys said will get implemented, it won't make INT-DEX the superior, more of on par now in functionality and capabilities in my opinion... I also want to point out the speed-to-damage Critical Mages can do compared to Dex, yes... Dex builds casts more skills, you can do instant-burst at 7.5k cspd (with maxed chain cast) and deal 2.5m+ of dmg on high end build crash can mostly do 2x of burst like 4m if lucky with hits and amount of hits, but compared it to INT-STR, yes it can be harder for some bosses but it kills most bosses fast, they can reach almost 2.5x of the dmg, and yes, not insta-burst, but they don't need insta-burst for high dmg dealing... and about casting, it's like only 1 second or close of difference in casting... for most of the people, they will just take Critical, It can be cheaper, can outshadow Dex when it comes to damage, less proration hungry and lesser to cost more mp comparable to dmg... burst is not reliable as iframe either due to animation, so... that's why i think INT-DEX went out of relevance, i think never had been. Them making INT-STR good on fast-killing most bosses is good, but atleast they should make INT-DEX more capable in longer runs and consistent... I won't say INT-DEX is weak when it comes to dmg, but the needing of another stat to take care of, getting high cspd, high cycle reliance and being capable of getting one-hit because of gsw just don't give INT-DEX a huge liking for players. I would also say that physical skills can be spammed quickly (in most cases) and even though they can deal lesser damage per hit (not really always), they can do high damage consistently. Aso is implementing bosses that can't be one-hit-dead, making an INT-DEX buff having a good entrance to attract others to make one.
     
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  15. Nekotori

    Nekotori Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sugarcoating it at this point, It seems most players just want Magic Warrior or just EZ mode Mage.
    Staff has emphasis on heavy burst damage even before Weaken & Spellburst.
    It had a damage bonus on most Magic Skills, & stilll is the only Mage to take full advantage of Finale.


    Magic Device focused on speed, but you guys didn't even want to touch it, & trashed it, calling it only a farming weapon.
    It literally gains stability from DEX, along with Sprite Skills exclusive to it helping to make it more viable.

    At this point, Asobimo ALREADY gave a way to focus on instantaneous casting recently: Magic Blade Skills

    With the recent revamp, this skill tree gives a viable way to deal damage quickly.
    Now you can use Enchant Sword & Union Sword with Conversion.
    Union Sword & Enchant Burst Sword are basically the equivalent of Magic: Burst.
    Union Sword + Reunion is the closest we'll probably get to Magic: Finale with an element(Staff Version).

    On top of that, these skills auto change to Strong Element, giving an extra 25% damage on the Damage to Element bonuses from INT AND can be sped up with Motion Speed.

    Guess what the result was??? It was considered OP DUE to its speed.
    The worst part is, apparently this even isn't even taking into account Enchanted Spell, Magic Skills, Nemesis, etc.

    If all this isn't enough, I don't know what to tell you.

    Edit: Welp, had to re-copy this
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2023
  16. Ceeyane

    Ceeyane Member

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    Staff aren't emphasized on just damage, that's why they recommended DEX for faster casting time and not damage, MD's first builds or at least just testing builds do auto-attacks and use skills at the same time, AGI increases normal attack damage.

    Conversion only swap stats like MATK/ATK, I don't think the personal stats will become INT if you chose STR, so the INT Elemental Damage bonus won't apply, they just have the element or something. Asobimo never learns how different their development environment to the player ones, so that's why they sometimes tweak things up. (NOT KNOWLEDGE SO YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT)

    Staff with dex suffers from inconsistency and being not flexible. You need expensive (can be cheap now if you need high cspd, depends on you now how you will build it) gears to reach high CSPD bare minimum of 7.5k CSPD for insta-burst, then reliance on high cycle sucks most of the time, if physical classes relies on quick motion then it'll feel sucks too... We're pointing out the additional requirements of stats on top of unreliable skills that makes INT-DEX hard to use and expensive to build.

    If Staff will just focus on damage, there's only one viable sub-stat? STR? Staff is supposed to be a vast weapon and have the ability to switch on what sub-gear you prefer to use and have different playstyle.

    I do made a high CSPD (8k) and motion speed (49% with gsw, 50% with potion) int-dex, MW skills are do meant to be quick, Magic skills have long animation... Even with my speed, it still look slow vs physical classes or at least a bit close.

    EDIT just adding something: Sprite is mainly for supporting and doing additional damages with dos skills while supporting. Even the devs do stated MD will have supporting skills (sprite), people just make builds focusing on damage. Meta making.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2023
  17. Nekotori

    Nekotori Well-Known Member

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    Had to give myself some time to think.
    I'm sorry for my previous post, replied because at that point, I got exasperated with seeing the thread name & had the MW revamp in mind. It's not an excuse, but just to explain the first part where it basically was a rant.


    Staff aren't emphasized on just damage, that's why they recommended DEX for faster casting time and not damage, MD's first builds or at least just testing builds do auto-attacks and use skills at the same time, AGI increases normal attack damage.

    - So when I mean Staff is focused on damage, I had meant the Skill bonuses on Magic Skills.
    But regarding the recommended stats, I would argue it was made with maybe T3 Skills in mind.

    Conversion only swap stats like MATK/ATK, I don't think the personal stats will become INT if you chose STR, so the INT Elemental Damage bonus won't apply, they just have the element or something. Asobimo never learns how different their development environment to the player ones, so that's why they sometimes tweak things up. (NOT KNOWLEDGE SO YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT)

    - Well, the Phantom Discord released a document regarding the revamp which can explain alot better than I can.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/17QVSkRW84YaRikSE1VD8ZZMouI9j5VGi-Hoe5jZpxnA/edit

    Staff with dex suffers from inconsistency and being not flexible. You need expensive (can be cheap now if you need high cspd, depends on you now how you will build it) gears to reach high CSPD bare minimum of 7.5k CSPD for insta-burst, then reliance on high cycle sucks most of the time, if physical classes relies on quick motion then it'll feel sucks too... We're pointing out the additional requirements of stats on top of unreliable skills that makes INT-DEX hard to use and expensive to build.

    - Unfortunately, hard agree with it not being flexible which is why I'm a bit bitter towards MW, which is a lot more flexible in comparison.
    While it indeed requires 8000+ Cspd to instant cast [Impact -> Burst], what I've done was try to either time it since for me I can reduce cast time to less than a second, or utilize a combo that utilizes 2 Burst Stacks instead of 1, for an easier instant cast, but at the cost of mobility or reduced damage...

    If Staff will just focus on damage, there's only one viable sub-stat? STR? Staff is supposed to be a vast weapon and have the ability to switch on what sub-gear you prefer to use and have different playstyle.
    - Can't really argue with that.

    I do made a high CSPD (8k) and motion speed (49% with gsw, 50% with potion) int-dex, MW skills are do meant to be quick, Magic skills have long animation... Even with my speed, it still look slow vs physical classes or at least a bit close.
    - Yeah, you did post a video on another thread showing that. Sorry about that

    EDIT just adding something: Sprite is mainly for supporting and doing additional damages with dos skills while supporting. Even the devs do stated MD will have supporting skills (sprite), people just make builds focusing on damage. Meta making.

    - The skill tree does give support options & allows you to deal additional damages while supporting.
    However, the bottom part of the skill trees specifically is also good for damage dealers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
  18. Ceeyane

    Ceeyane Member

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    no need for apologies tbh, other people explaining their perspective is a good thing, so that they might have a better treatment for the idk "issues"?, int-dex really haven't had anything good for them for years now... you can argue that yea just use lots of cspd stuffs... but it seems unreasonable for me now that other classes are getting buffed and it'll just make int-dex more obsolete? not mentioning the price... and crit really just slaps very hard for magic, high constant and multiplier compared to other dps skills... making stf mages more linear... which just sucks... but i get your point, thanks for your response.
     

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