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What if finale was like Nemesis from iruna?

Discussion in 'Mage' started by kousunpo, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. kousunpo

    kousunpo Well-Known Member

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    高寸法神ヒザノス
    Maybe they could just straight up replace Finale in exchange for Nemesis with all the skill mechanisms and requirements of Nemesis from iruna, sure lower raw damage than finale with Nemesis doing around 300k to 500k+ with top equipments, but hey far more spammable and perfectly balanced, super fast casting and no cool down with much better mobility and survival ^^
     
  2. screamingfox

    screamingfox Well-Known Member

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    I mean, at that point it's just Burst without requirements. Finale itself is a fine skill. It needs it's nerfs removed though. Alongside Matk scaling and more lenient requirements to crit. There should be at least 1 skill mages have that has cast time. It just needs to be way stronger to warrant the time spent. May that be by making crit requirements not dumb or giving finale inherent crit values to allow for Int/Str builds I dunno. It needs something though.
     
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  3. kousunpo

    kousunpo Well-Known Member

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    yes that can work and the inherent cast time of finale can be reduced to something more manageable like 1.5 seconds and the inherent motion speed be reduced to 0.5 seconds, and maybe they can lower the cspd requirements of burst to something more attainable like 2k or 1.5k, allowing mages to play burst without being restricted to playing only cspd, and maybe Nemesis can be a tier 5 skill in the burst family, doing more damage than finale around 10 million+ base damage((which can be modified with stats and equipments and xtals etc)) with a cast range of 14 meters with staff and 16 meters with MD, and is instant cast, but the downside is very low magic pierce that must be countered with magic pierce adders in order to do optimal damage and is always light element?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
  4. kousunpo

    kousunpo Well-Known Member

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    Nemesis being a tier 5 skill with that much power and speed can be justified by future bosses being far more difficult than bosses that tier 4 are already good at dealing with and necessitates tier 5 skills to even stand a chance against the future bosses, like ones with so much hp((around 100 million+ hp easy mode, billion+ normal mode and so on)) and defenses and resistance that even in easy mode with top gear equipment finale is still a complete and utter joke to those bosses not even denting them in the slightest requiring magic with far greater firepower
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
  5. ishayel

    ishayel Well-Known Member

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    The biggest trouble is the delay between finale lock the ground target and does the damage ( 5s lol).
    Monsters, minibosses, and bosses are now to fast to move and skill that make the use of finale totally hazardous, unless you use it at close range ( closest than the first hit area).
    Btw, Bishop in iruna is not a mage, it's a support job... Mages in iruna are like in toram, bad ( high wizard or perhaps low wizard on iruna would be the right name).
    Bishop get their magic from gods, they are not mages.
     
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  6. kousunpo

    kousunpo Well-Known Member

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    Bishops in iruna are much better than the super glassy fragile high wizard in every way especially with super refined equipment with high end light magic+% or matk+% crystas
    such as tsarita struggler max sred taenia maxed sred and the charms that have more than 4 def reaching 95 equipment def total for 95% physical damage reduction along with resistance al crystas to total 95% magical resistance along with all rc abilities from level 5 to 1 on all equipments, and with all the equipments being 2s has higher dps than high wizard, source: i main bishop in iruna lol, and yeah finale is nowhere close to burst in useability that is why i suggested the idea of nerfing finale's damage in favor of superspeeding finale to be instant cast and instant motioned or replacing it altogether with a super fast magic skill like nemesis from iruna with iruna mechanisms and formula in order for there to be more variety of practical magical combat skills other than the blatantly superior burst lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  7. ishayel

    ishayel Well-Known Member

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    All that is not a mage is better than a mage in asimobo games :)
    It's pretty easy to balance a mage and a phy job.
    Fo finale, just do like cf, a buff that charge and release a meteor when we want, damage depending on charge. Not so hard lol
    Same goes for all other skills
    Snipers haven't cast time, so why mages would get one for a skill that does less dmg than his equivalent in physical ?????
    Same goes with the matk buff vs warcry. Same effect, same cast time and skill animation, not so hard lol.
    And for all other mage skills perhaps time to open the eyes, they have a useless cast time as well vs their efficiency.
    with 1k cast spd, all skills rnk 1 and 2, some rank 3 need have no cast time.
    For rank 4 cast spd near useless.
    Like other physical jobs, mages need atk spd ( for motion), crit rate ( a lot lol 400) for some more dmg, matk ( like atk for physical jobs), why would they need even more stats if gear for mages haven't 9 or 10 stats when crafted.
    Balance a phy and mag jobs is easy lol, they just won't do it.
    With the release of monsters more and more faster and that can move while casting, plus can change their skills while casting, where even for a physical jobs casting a combo of 2 skills begin to be hazardous ( most of minibossesor bosses 220+ have time while doing your 2 combo fast physiscal skills to end their current skill , teleport behind you and kill you lol) so to use a long skill would became just impossible, that's why finale is now crap, too slow for the targets we hunt.
    And as they decided that old skills need have an utility, this may conduct that we will never get better skill than finale.
    They don't care about mages, it's pure occidental job, not a japan warrior job. As for books of skills and magic tree skills. How many phy trees vs magic skills ?
    Well simple, we have 1 magic tree.....( as skills that use atk and hit in magic are not magic skills, like matk skills that hit in physical are not physical skills.)
    Perhaps wizardry tree too, wit the most wtf meteor skill.
    For asimobo, what kills all dinausors was just an arrow. It's well known that just firing a arow in the sky is stritly forbidden, because when arrow will fall down on ground, it may make a arrow crater, like in arizona ( no, it,s not a meteor crater).....

    Mages need move skills as well, not mirage. A teleport skill usable to evade danger and not a teleport of 3 meters away lol
    If they won't change , give us a true shield that block all incoming damage for 1 or 2 times while casting, or a shield defense that is like pdef, and we can use while casting, but eah time we use it ( need to be timed btw) lowers the skill power we are casting as we need use energy for the shield instead of the spell, or add cast time ( OR not the two because they was able to do the two).
    And in this case if there is a casting time, dmg will be at the value of the time casted.
    Just do as this :
    All skills have same coeff damage.
    All skills have malus and bonus. They affect end skill damage. More malus more dmg.
    Finale is the top malus skills :
    long fixed cast time (3s)
    very long animation skill ( 1s at start+5s at end)
    Very high mp cost ( 1800/2000 lol)
    Very tiny usefull area ( main damage is first hit)
    Target ground not monster
    Target ground is fixed 5s before damage

    And for all this malus, it have -50% bonus ( or malus lol) dmg
    Finale is so good that even enemies don't use it. For new bosses and the coming one, time you start casting, you are dead meat, mirage is only each 10s lol.
    So what would be left for mages : Javelins and flash blast buff, just cats flash bast and evade dash until kill lol
    Even 1s cast time will be useless. All that is not instant or less than total time 1s ( cast + skill animation ) would be useless, as combo lol, even cf release with 50% motion speed is hard to place, as you can see the number of cf users that keep dying on lvl 200+ minibosses and bosses.
    So what about a 9s skill where you can move of 3 meters only once every 10s ..... ( even with mirage at 10, impossible to evade aoe of 8m diameter if we are in the middle, and we are always in middle because of aggro of finale lol )
    Time to switch aggro on dmg dealt or potential, not on mana cost , or mobs really stupid, first kill the most dangerous thread, and it's not the guy that is chanting for long to make fall a pinch of salt randomly in the battle area....
    Just changing this aggro settings will balance all.
    You have powerful skills with very high dps, you need to be able to not be one shoot... More dmage you do , more aggro you generate , so you need more def skills so full dmg built dangerous or useless.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  8. ishayel

    ishayel Well-Known Member

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    About dps of skills, finale have the crapest dps of rank 4 skills, it is even beat by some rank 1 skills.
    Just calculate so, if you have high matk, like 7k, you'll do around 4m max damage, to get the dps just divide by the full time skill ( finale + 2/3 of the time of mana charge to get the mp to do it) so 4m/13s = 307 692 dps
    For cf : if you have all skills buffs and high atk, you'll do around 10m max dmg.
    What is the time we must used to divide ? it's 2s because time you use cf as buff and time you release it. The charging time is not counted because while charging you can use any dps skill, you are free.
    dps of cf : 10/2 = 5m dps
    All 2s can be reducted by motion speed.
    Around 10s of the 13s can be reduced by motion speed ( it's less because there is motion speed on finale, mp charge and maximizer that can't be reduced, like at start of the skill, it's fixed).
    And for mp charge with cf, decoy lol. and you can even prorate while doing the charging time, mages need prorate after finale, and need hit lol
     
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  9. kousunpo

    kousunpo Well-Known Member

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    yes that is true asobimo could have easily made mage and physical classes as balanced and usable as each other but they chose not too, treating finale like cf making it a buff that charges and then instant releasing it would have made it useful, and making the damage and crit formula of magic to be the same as physical classes would work too, and yep i agree magic should have always been instant cast and instant motioned and not bound to cast time because bosses and minibosses are way too fast and dangerous((can 1 hit mages)) to cast spells, and yes they could revamp the aggro bar to provide decent balance and incentivize def skills and more bulkier build for survival, and i completely agree with your comment after that, where magic is totally dwarfed by physical classes in terms of usefulness and even power and that they really need the proper balance that you have explained but unfortunately as you have mentioned asobimo doesn't care about magic because it is an Occidental job and not japan warrior job which is a bummer, but hopefully 1 day a jp player could see our thoughts in these forums assuming they ever do and rethink about mage once more and how biased asobimo is towards physical classes and against mages and from there maybe the jp player could discuss this among their friends and families that play toram and a domino chain reaction can occur in which there can be enough demand among the jp player base for asobimo to begin reconsidering giving the mages the proper balances you have explained to actually make mages as true magical equals to the physical classes, and that would be hopeful thinking on our part, but if it does happen it will be a miracle!!
     
  10. ishayel

    ishayel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and time skill is charging we can do something that seem more and more usefull with new bosses mechanics, support, heal and debuff.
     
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  11. AnnXYZ

    AnnXYZ Active Member

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    I
    Interesting combo. Can I use it?
     
  12. Lucifere

    Lucifere Angel of Rebellion Elite Member

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    I would be agrree to add cooldown to magic skills but definetely need a huge revamp in damage.
     

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