TFL Rules: Suggestions and Ideas

Time to give this thread some life.

Firstly, I would like to give a MASSIVE thanks to all TFL staff, donors, and participants. @h0tcak3s @F1R3D0G @Kariin @Erynel @zym @RPG_Neko @Bago2 @kelden13 @lorel @BlackRex @Irusaru thanks a lot! ^^

On to the meat of the subject. I have 2 primary suggestions:

1a) Remove Tank and Breaker rank from Mage Tier.
1b) Remove Tank rank from Gunner Tier.
1c) Remove Tank rank from Archer Tier.
2) Standardize the brackets.

(1b and 1c follow a similar argument to 1a)

1a) Never in Toram Online will you see any decent, damage-oriented Mage strive for either the Tank or Breaker rank. Why should they? Let the Warriors/Brawlers be in the front, holding aggro, while the Mage stays safe and provides good Magic Damage. Let the Dual Wielders, 1hs, and Brawlers initiate a break, and you help tap. Simple, smart, and smooth.

However, in TFL, that concept is gone for the sake competition. Mages throw themselves into the fray to secure Tank and Breaker rank. Now, this isn't a problem... except for one issue. 2 ranks are required to win, not 1.

So, instead of Mages focusing on Attacker rank with Magic skills in normal, team-oriented gameplay, Mages forsake the Attacker rank in order to secure Tank and Breaker rank with Knight (or other) skills. Why should they focus on winning what they are naturally good at, when the competition rewards winning what they are not naturally good at? Why should I be the strongest Mage I can be, when I can simply Provoke + Assault Attack + Mega Speed Potion normal attacks for the win? (And yes I lost to Assault Attack lol)

But that's the nature of TFL, right? To give everyone a fighting chance? Surely a weaker player with sub-par equipment can pull off a win against a far "stronger" opponent... Then what? That newbie may or may not win. And what are they left with...? A Mage that can win TFL, but will lose out on optimal play for the rest of Toram.

Therein lies the problem. You build your character specifically for TFL, then what? You have wasted skill points on Provoke and other skills that you would never use outside of TFL. And you pay the price of wasted skills either through using Orbs, using a Notebook of Oblivion, or resetting your character. (Or simply living with it)

On top of this, the weaker player doing their best to win Tank and Breaker will lose to a stronger, more experienced player using the same strategy. What's worse is that the stronger player can afford such a cost, whereas for the weaker player it's all or nothing.

If this isn't a problem... so be it. I simply disagree with a rank that means nothing and is bad for a Mage in normal gameplay.

1b & 1c) Remove Tank rank from Gunner and Archer tiers.

My argument here is the same as for Mages. It was recognized for Tanks that a DPS assist is necessary, so why not a Tank assist for Mages, Gunners, and Archers? (Needed to a lesser extent though) Or at the very least, remove Tank rank. It can be used as a tiebreaker if needed.

2) Standardize the brackets.

Either all 2-player or 3-player rounds. Changing the format like that in the middle of the competition is quite inconsistent. I understand that you had uneven numbers, and the change of format was necessary, but I would like to suggest that you try:

1 - Seeding previous top players, so they do not meet early in a draw. (Didn't have this option this time xD)
2 - A double elimination format. Or,
3 - What you did in Mage Tier, where the strongest losers advanced, even though they lost. This evened out the bracket in the next round since you could take as many losers that were needed to fill out the draw, and proceed with an even tournament from there.

Enjoy the read. ^^

 

I also lost in the mage quarterfinals due to my opponent using Assault Attack, Storm, Provoke, Assault Attack Spam, More Storm, more Provoke. All rounds were exactly the same. Couldn't do anything against it, because I as a mage don't have Knight skills, why would I...?

Now, something I could suggest is that if a player is glitching in the match, its better to restart the match. This happened in my finals battle and even the 2 judges saw it happening but couldn't do anything because there's no rule against this.

 

~ thanks for this @x2c actually was waiting for this heheh. lets see what will happen on the next season
@Precaria thanks for your input
and please if there's anything else . don't hesitate to post it here thanks

 

Make a Player vs Player (PVP) but only the who want to be fight only can join such as Im envy of someone and ask him to fight , then he agree , so they can fight and who win can get the item that they put , sorry my english quiet bad

 

if mage only focus on DPS (attacker) the winner decide by his equipment not his skill or build @x2c

 

Then what do you suggest? It's clear that a simple Provoke + Assault Attack is all it takes to win Mage Tier.

 

I dont think so x2c. I appreciate your concern. And thanks for participating. I got your point but i just wanna share a lil bit about this tourney from my side.
I spared a lot(for mage tier) for this tfl and considering all the rules as well(including those provoke, assault attack, even sword rage if your opp use sword). From sparing, we know we can still win from provoke spammer mage. @Irusaru also knew this as well.
And IMO, I still think its a fair tourney. These are what TFL cycle 2 teach me in the end: By gaining breaker means you are the most hitter using your attack/magic. Gaining tank means you understand how to control aggro. In the end, this tourney makes us understand about this game further.

We cannot just simply win with bitter nut combo or normal skellies combos right?

 

So, you spared a lot. It paid off in Attacker rank, of all places. And it was beaten by Hanzho, who never got a single Attacker rank in your Mauez battle and was under pressure to win Tank and Breaker the entire match.

We all knew that Knight Skills were a distinct possibility going into Mage Tier. You knew that, I knew that, Precaria knew that, Irusaru knew that, etc. At the end of the day we still lost to those willing to dedicate a resources to a TFL-specific character and skills. Fair? If you consider a changing bracket format, changing boss, and ranks that would never been seen outside of TFL fair, then yes it's defintiely fair.

As a competitor with any interest in winning, how to obtain Attacker, Tank, and Breaker should have been known already. A greater understanding is fine, but ultimately people are playing to win, not for greater understanding.

What do you propose then?

 

i'd say give certain point system to certain ranks for certain tiers, for DPS class like mage and gunner, make it a point system like someone mentioned it earlier.

other tier classes remains the same.

Attacker: 3 pts
Breaker: 2 pts
Tank: 1 pts

so if someone gets attacker and the other guy get breaker and tank, it will be even out, at the end of the day anyone who makes a single mistake will be the loser.

so at the end of the day, mage is not suppose to be a pure tank, pts will be only 1 for that rank, and this point system also make it so that if you put points into aggro(knight skills), you won't be able to win TFL, nor if you rely on DPS/equips on attack rank you won't be able to win TFL too, so its down to not only equips but also skills and tactics.

 

Thanks for the lovely comments you have posted and thank you for participating.
I will try my best to address them.

Suggestion #1 : removing breaker and tank rank for certain tiers.
From the way you have commented, i think what you want is a full dps battle?
If that's the case, then best lump everyone together and compete for DPS.
We were wanting to see the best individuals from each tiers, who were able to control bosses and the gameplay. To which many did flourish! /claps/. And also, the reason why we did attacker, breaker and tank is to show the different variations of builds out there, not just focusing on DPS, but others too.

Suggestion #2 : standarising the brackets and seeding.
Firstly, our brackets are standardised to accommodate each tier depending on the number of players. Our target was 16 each, with exception of mage that had an overflowing number of apps. But sadly, some slots were not filled and some were filled with troll posts that we had to thoroughly filter. Before brackets were released, the staff were already racking their brains to figure out a suitable type of arrangement to accommodate the different numbers of participants in each tier. Personally, i really do not see any problems with the brackets. Had we standardised everything, then there were will be many players who would go through the rounds without having to battle.
Secondly, as for seeding, we used a random generator to pair up the participants, if we seeded at all, it would only based in biased speculations.
Finally, you need to understand that, we wanted a smooth running as possible and by doing things like double elimination and etc would have lengthen the league and worn out our already tired staff and participants. Most of us have lives outside of the game and many have sacrificed their precious time to this. All and all, i see a successful cycle. Yea there are flaws here and there, but you have to also understand that, TFL was created to create entertainment for players and that will always be our main goal.

In summary, love the enthusiam and i welcome you full heartedly to come manage and organise TFL with us next cycle.

 

Haha idk how to respond this. Thanks for pointing at my fight. I dont want to comment your match.
Let me tell u beforehand. Hanzho is my guildie. We spared a lot with many scenarios, and all of participant is free to do that. Hes a good mage even though hes using a knight skill, hes still a good mage for every boss farm or TFL purpose.
That is his main char. A mage. When we meet at 2nd round. We're killing each other there.
Yeah i lose. Its a fair match for me. It means hes better than me in analyzing the situations and had a good preparation for that match. I accept that i lose that match. Hes really dedicated to win. Why do we think it was not fair? He won because of his effort. Yeah he deserved it.
Even though i can promise u it would be diff if i faced him 1vs 1.
I wouldnt say its a distinct possibility x2c. Saying those will limit creativity in building a char. Even asobimo didnt prohibit a staff user to use knight skill. I used assault attack since my 40s for my opener skill.

I understand your points x2c. And we also really appreciated your feedback.
For next tfl. From my understanding of yours. You only want to compete in attacker rank right?
We ll take it as an input ^_^.

 

Suggestion #1: My reasoning for removing Tank and/or Breaker is simple, it's inconsistent with the rest of the game. Mages with Knight skills are simply unheard of, unless they are actually tanks. Now, anyone can use whatever build they want to use, and I'm not trying to limit people's freedoms here. But it's impractical to those players who aren't willing to take a risk on skills that will likely not see the light of day in normal gameplay.

And yes, there were plenty of builds in TFL. Hanzho made a great adaptation to a Magic Device against Annacute to win. He made a great adjustment in the Mauez round to pull off a Round 6 comeback. Elemental Staves beat out the insanely high MATK neutal element staves. My opponent @Ardyn in my match made a great move of using Assault Attack after realizing that Attacker rank is likely a lost cause against someone focusing on DPS. I'm not here to discredit their wins nor their intelligence.

Lumping everyone in a DPS category would leave Snipers only, and that would be ridiculous lol, and I'm not suggesting that.

So be it. It seems like it's not as much of an issue than I perceive it to be, based on the responses so far.

Suggestion #2: I am not pushing any one format in particular, and this format worked well. Every format is going to have issues and I was doing my best to suggest a more balanced alternative.

And I'm aware of the sacrifices all of you have made for TFL. It's difficult to disagree with something and attempt to be neutral at the same time, and I apologize if this comes off as salty or bitter. I greatly appreciate all of the efforts made for TFL. ^^

If he's willing to spend skill points on Knight skills and live with it, then so be it. I, for one, am not. I would rather save skill points for other, more useful skills outside of TFL. Yes, he's willing to prepare for and analyze a competitve scenario in which the normal skills a Mage would not normally win. I'm not trying to discredit their wins nor their intelligence.

I simply disagree with the fairness of why he won, and not the fairness of how he won. A DPS competiton is boring, but a gimme Tank rank to those willing to get Provoke is silly imo. (Perhaps we should use the Support rank?) Breaker has some merit though. What it measures has practical values to a Mage outside of TFL, and an understanding of it is very beneficial.

TL;DR - Remove Tank or ban Provoke. Breaker is fine. Other tiers like 2h and Brawler can combat Provoke, but Mages cannot. I'm not 100% sure about Gunner and Archer.

 

Instead of remove Tanker rank for DPS tier like Mage, Acher, Gunner
I suggest to give a minus point who get tanker rank. It's penalty for any DPS class in the game who steal tanker rank IMO.

So the battle will be more smart and be more real, It's how the contestant manage to do high damage while maintain low agro. Also, the battle will not about who had better gear. If we just compete only attacker/breaker rank.
And it'll give positive result, all player will realize to deliver very good DPS class build.
for ex. archer with "sneak attack" skill include will be more famous. or equip with gear with -agro% will be more useful.

Giving a point for tank rank, is bad idea. More player will do such tricky build like x2c said. Bring some tanker equip with high agro gear (knight talisman or BD cape), or badly Include provoke as skill build. (strange, and really irresponsible build outside TFL)
But just remove tanker rank as a point will just make the competition is about who had the best gear. Even so, giving minus point for who acquire tanker rank is one of solution.

Sorry,
I am not even join in the event before but I give blind suggestion for it.
Thanks for reading anyway,

 

This is cool, I like the idea to avoid damage. Coz in real battle, actually we avoid as many damage as possible if our class is mage or archer. Cause these are long range fighters which mean they made to avoid damage. It's harder to avoid damage in game also rather than just accept it and survive, so it will need the agility of the player to avoid damage but still can give damage to boss. I vote for this idea, even though I never join TFL.

 

i got ur point. but when i imagine the match with that system, no one would attack first, each others would wait his opponent to launch attack first, if in that case the boss would targetting automatically base on aggro player, then player who get aggro will runaway from the boss , the other opponent would attack then aggro change to him, then he also runaway to get rid aggro, the others hit again and he get aggro and he runaway again, and the match would be like that until their foot get break, looping act match, isnt a weird match?

 

The judge should be, tank with provoke lvl10, one provoke on each battle should be enough.
The contestant who steal the agro,is the one who get penalty.
If no one steal agro, that's good enough. no one get penalty, then the score base on attacker and breaker rank.

 

so judge must have a pro tanker, and let we said that the aggro will always to judges, then if like that the winner still depends their equipment, more expensive equipment more damage and will be win since its based on attacker and breaker. nice suggestion ^^

 

I really like this idea, personally I haven't competed in tfl is because of the unfairness (nothing against any of the tfl organisers or anything) this would remove people building a pure tfl character capable of taking a rank they wouldn't normally take in normal boss situations. Specifically speaking for mage, you want to avoid aggro as much as possible