TFL Rules: Suggestions and Ideas

I said, one provoke each battle.
The point is how to manage to not over 1provoke agro until the boss killed. but you can get attacker and breaker position.
I think with good gear is not enough, you need strategy and good combo.

 

Player's agility to avoid direct hit too, rather than just stay still and take the damage.

 

Owh well, I didn't know about that
So player got tanker point just by getting hit?

 

when we got hit, our hp will decreased, won't it will give point to tank? I think tank is about how many u took damage?
coz sometime when I want to take tanker rank, I cheated with just step to direct hit willingly or even better with volg coz it's direct hit give burn ailment.

 

@x2c
Your feedback will be taken into consideration for next cycle. we can assure that. Its a great input for us to get honest feed back as yours.
however every input will be discussed further with next staff of TFL cycle to be decided .

i know your feeling against provoke. at first i also felt the same until we found a way to set counter measure of that moves with magic skill.

however
Just want to point something. never assume every ppl has similar build. we're not bound to one single build. Everyone has their own rights of their build. theres no build that can be used as an absolute guide. IMO it is normal if someone has its own build for pvp in any kind of mmorpg which diff with farming char.

 

I appreciate it. (And you found a counter-measure to Provoke...?)

Of course no one is bound to any particular build >.> It's their build after all. I assumed things because I'm under the impression that people will naturally gravitate to a fairly small number of optimal options, and that's where my opinions stem from. I apologize for any false assumptions I made...

As for actually tanking bosses in Mage Tier, I don't really care if a Mage has Provoke, it's their decision to tank or not. But I dislike that it is being rewarded (due to how easy it can be achieved), however, it does not need to be punished. It's not the end of the world if a Mage tanks a boss just because they have aggro.

I don't think any skill needs to be banned. Rather, simply give it no reward in Mage Tier, namely Rage Sword and Provoke. Assault Attack is a viable option for setting up Mage combos. And I have no idea why a Mage would have Parry, lol.

Tanking is fine, just be aware that a boss breathing down your neck can be a problem...

I'll consider it. I fear that I'm going too hard on things in here though.

 

This is a great idea but I think a minus point is too much. IMO, TFL doesn't test party play only, it tests both party play and solo capabilities so I think that the Tank rank is still essential especially for dps classes such as mage, which can be flinched if hit by an attack while casting.

 

yes. its just a matter of combo and mp spend if you want to compete in tank rank (remember that storm cast time is only 0.2s - HINT), or let loose of tank rank and compete in attacker and breaker. both works. while breaker ranks is a lil bit tricky since we need to change equip as well .. aah i wont spilled more than this ...^_^

no need to apologize.. noone's right and noone's wrong here. we're in the forum to discuss.. like this thread is the place to discuss anyones feedback.

 

Still, stealing tank rank is not related with solo capability. Did you use provoke when you soloing boss?

In case previous TFL rule, mage battle for ex.
A player doing provoke + spamming instant cast physical damage skill (low damage of course), then he win due to getting tank + breaker rank.
While the one who kill the boss is the rival by doing real damage skill.
Can the winner has the right to be called as a player with good soloing capability?

well, I just put my suggestion here, I can't even help to organize the tournament.
Good luck,

 

How is the Tank rank not related to soloing capability? Do you let others tank while soloing? No, being solo means there is no one there to tank for you. And no, I do not use provoke when soloing, that would be dumb.
Like I said earlier, Party play + Solo capabilites, TFL is a competition for both so I was not just referring to soloing capability. If the winner won via Tank+breaker rank, it means that the other player was having a relaxing time doing dps. It does seem unfair, however, the rules were not against it. This is why tekuuei's idea might be a solution to that problem.

 

Just going to point something out here. Everyone is trying to create some sort of personalized TFL to cater to what they believe their class should be. In the end, TFL is not so much a showcase of a Mage's pure dps or a gunner's ability to generate aggro, it's always been about the ability to create a build that would dominate all three ranks(or two of the three).

Rather than eliminate any of the ranks, I think it would be prudent to change it so that the the winning condition is the first to take all three ranks is the winner(with the secondary condition being something like whoever takes attack and breaker rank 2/3 times wins to avoid anyone solely doing aggro spam). That way, everyone is forced to find a way to hold and maintain aggro while dealing optimum damage. In effect, you would be creating a class for tfl specifically because tfl is a thing of its own.

For the dps heads, I think a separate tier should be made where dps is the determining factor but this would be without class limitations so you can enter whatever build you'd like. This would, of course, invite mostly snipers and top tier mages but the largest complaint here seems to be about how one class or the other(just the classic classes) has a specific role to play(mage and gunner dps/meelee classes tank) when Toram has always advertised itself as a game that's not dependent on any class so this is a moot point.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention, as an example, that the most successful " dps mages" use skills from other weapon trees to improve their damage. In the end, everyone has a hybrid sort of build. It's one of Toram's strengths as well as one of its weaknesses.

 

No one here is trying to create a personalized TFL. In fact, it's easier to argue that those in favor of keeping the Tank rank want a more personalized TFL, because only a minority of Mages actually have Provoke. I'm not here to argue that, though.

I am merely pointing out how ridiculously easy it is to get 1 of the 2 ranks needed for a win, especially in Mage Tier. It's so easy for a strong DPS Mage to have 10 points in Provoke and win Attacker and Tank, or a weak DPS Mage with physical skills and high ASPD with Provoke to win Tank and Breaker. Breaking a Provoke is difficult (also dependent on the Level of Provoke, Level 1 Provoke isn't the end of the world), and with a Mage is harder than most other classes due to a lack of combo spam.

If it's popular enough, so be it. But anyone who doesn't have this skill will be at a disadvantage before TFL even begins.

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Now, your winning condition suggestion is something I (could?) agree with. Could you clarify? I'm interested in how it could work out.

I believe I've touched on a DPS tier already. I'm under the impression that Snipers and Impact Snipers would win a pure DPS battle, provided they don't die or are interrupted.

And of course DPS Mages use skills from other trees to improve their damage. Holy Fist, Assault Attack, Throwing Knife, and even Shield Bash (and others) are fantastic for improving Magic Damage. (I use all but Shield Bash) And it seems like your definition of a hybrid is very broad; everyone is a hybrid under that definition in particular.

 

The thing is you're seeing TFL in a different light. You're already biased towards what a Mage should be. No actual mage has provoke. It's counterproductive to their usual squishyness(if this were a regular mmo anyway which it's not). The people who created mages with provoke were strategizing how to win TFL not how to win attacker rank which is what the personalized TFL comment was all about.

It's simple. TFL is sort of a rank hogging competition so what I'm proposing is that matches go on until one of the competitors has hogged all three(regardless of how the previous runs went) ranks. To avoid it being in a stalemate forever, though, is that a record be kept of who achieves attacked AND breaker(at the same time) and whoever has done it twice(or thrice) also wins. So basically for an instant win, you hog all three ranks. For a "sustained" win, you get attacker&breaker twice.

The second winning condition(sustained) is to avoid people building a pure aggro build and forsaking damage completely.

It's simply to avoid creating a dps tier for ever class. In the end, if the goal is to prove who has the best damage, it's a good way to showcase your build which could be secret as hell for all everyone knows.

Everyone in Toram has a hybrid build, mostly. Lol I think exceptions to the case are when a physical class uses mp charge, as an example. Toram promotes hybrid builds. It's its core concept. The fact that damage drop off can be highly improved by using magic/physical(depending on your main damage type) proves this. So yah, hybrid builds definitely abound.

 

I'm biased to what a Mage should be...? Your next sentence says, "No actual mage has provoke." I believe a Mage should not have Provoke, so I'm biased towards reality?

No, I get it. I'm more than aware that they're strategizing how to win TFL, and winning Attacker rank may or may not be a part of their strategies. I'm biased towards how the rest of the game works rather than how TFL works. My apologies.

Sounds like a good idea... I do like the idea of a "KO" more or less. If you make a clean sweep of the ranks then you KO someone xD. A sustained rank is interesting as well. Hmmm... There is still the issue of an infinite stalemate.

If one player maintains Attacker, and one player maintains Breaker, either one player must do better/worse than their opponent to secure the other missing rank, or there needs to be a tiebreaker rank. I don't think Supporter rank is the best way to break a tie, so naturally it falls back on Tank rank. I've already talked about how much I dislike Tank rank, but I've come to realize I only dislike it because of one thing, Provoke... Tank rank adds a very interesting dynamic to TFL, especially to Mage Tier, because by attempting to secure it, you risk disrupting your DPS or Breaking ability if you mess up.

After all of my talking and whatever I've been doing, I think keeping the current format and banning Provoke is the best solution. Best 2 of 3 from Attacker, Tank, and Breaker wins the round, first to 3 rounds wins the match. Simple and direct.

Sure, that makes sense... Perhaps we can discuss this on a separated thread.

 

I may have been unclear with that statement. Classic mages are squishy, ranged classes with overall high damage. A glass cannon, basically, which is why I'm saying that you're biased towards how they should be, because mages aren't supposed to be tanks. The issue is that Toram's structure makes it so mages can provoke. No other mmo I've played would ever even allow a Mage to draw aggro to themselves intentionally with a skill like provoke. Mages draw aggro because their skills and damage naturally generate high threat levels.

There's also the topic of armor. There's no difference between a warrior's defense and a Mage's defense(if both are pure dps) so why is a 2H often called a tank when there is no defensive difference between a Mage and a 2H? It's because they're up close and their skills draw more aggro(not because their role is to draw aggro). A Mage can tank with the same level of difficulty. So yes, you're biased to what a Mage should be, not what a Toram mage can be. That clearer?

No problemo. We're here to perfect this tourney.

In my opinion, breaker is a tricky rank because of the way it works. I think that, if someone is dominating Attacker rank, eventually they can manage two breakers as well. That's my opinion anyway. ^^

As I mentioned above, I think breaker rank is too unpredictable for someone to constantly keep it, especially if two similar classes are competing for it. For example, how a 2H can easily steal it from a brawler when breaking is a brawler specialty. Tank and Attacker, however, have a more approachable strategy. But again, this is my own opinion.

This is definitely something to consider for perhaps all tiers.

If you ever find/make a thread with the topic, feel free to tag me.

 

IMO, why 2H often called a tank because:
1. they are melee. almost all their skill are short range, which will make they take most damage from mobs. when mage is long range attacker, they have advantage to avoid atk faster than short range attackers, so that make they take less damage.
2. 2H's skill is not easily interrupted like mage, mage's skill often cancelled due attack. so if they are under atk, it will difficult to make damage. so if we want to exploit the dps side of mage, we need to protect them.
but in this tourney, we need to win tanker rank too, that break the nature of long range, which they are best for avoid atk, rather than to take them. which make long users need to adopt partial tanker build like use provoke. IMO, if TFL still want to make tanker rank is one of win factor, banned provoke is not fair too.
Why not just make another tier like mage hybrid or archer/sniper hybrid? IMO in real battle mage/archer/sniper is not suppose to take damage except if they are tanker, they must avoid it. IMO, best rule to implement is the rule that @Alleura ever stated above for pure mage/archer/sniper that is tanker rank will give minus point. so u must maintain ur agro and must avoid atk, that harder than just use provoke or just spam skill. and for hybrid tier, tanker rank is a must.
sorry for any grammer mistake. english is not my native.

 

How bout nullifying the tank award point if the person winning the tank award doesnt do at least 40% dmg?

 

How could we measure that?

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate in what a tank is because it's not the right thread, but tank is a role that's been imposed on 2h. Yes, their skills up to now have been mostly uninteruptable, but with the addition of rampage and Warcry, they've begun to need an actual tank themselves. Meelee DPS is an actual thing, you know? Haha just because they're susceptible to damage it doesn't mean they're supposed to take damage.

Crowd control is only a third of a tank's job and it's only part of their job because it's damage control. The other two thirds is to take damage(when necessary).

These are all plausible suggestions considering it would require new strategies but punishing tank rank seems a little excessive. Consider that whoever gets aggro first is at a disadvantage because aggro tends to stay on the first person. Even if both people just wait for the other person to attack, the boss will eventually pick one person to attack at random. That's too much up to chance.

No problem. I got the message. :b